21:03 -!- couf changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Localization Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Meetings -- Init 21:03 < glezos> couf: You'll be chair-ing? 21:03 < couf> sure 21:03 < couf> <meeting> 21:03 < couf> <rollcall> 21:03 < couf> So who's here? 21:04 < [splinux]> DamienDurand 21:04 < couf> BartCouvreur 21:04 < glezos> DimitrisGlezos (el) 21:04 < fabian_a> FabianAffolter 21:04 < Samiby> SamuelBizien (fr) 21:04 < noriko> Noriko Mizumoto (ja) 21:04 < Raven46> PiotrDrąg (pl) 21:04 < stavrosg> Stavros Giannouris (el) 21:04 < vpv> VillePekkaVainio (fi) 21:04 < DomingoBecker> DomingoBecker (es) 21:04 < Rasther> DiegoZacarao (pt_BR) 21:04 < glezos> coolness. :) 21:05 < couf> </roolcall> 21:05 < couf> Hi everyone, and welcome to the 2nd L10N-meeting 21:05 < couf> meeting agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Meetings 21:05 < couf> as last week, please try and keep to the meeting protocol, http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/IRCHowTo#Protocol 21:06 -!- couf changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Localization Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Meetings -- Elvis 21:06 < couf> > glezos 21:06 < glezos> Yo. 21:06 < glezos> :) 21:06 < glezos> So, a big deal of stuff are happening around elvis 21:06 < glezos> Many people seem to want to move everything from the i18n.redhat.com infrastructure over to Fedora infrastructure 21:07 < glezos> This is important for translations because we won't have to maintain two accounts, but only one, on Fedora 21:07 < glezos> which we can use to do some nice stuff like the l10n-commits list, etc. 21:07 < glezos> I've contacted the maintainers of packages on elvis (i18n.redhat.com) and scheduled the move. 21:08 < glezos> Here is the page monitoring the process: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/RFR/ElvisMove 21:08 -!- giangy is now known as gian\out 21:08 < glezos> What we need as FLP is to update our guides until July 5th 21:09 < glezos> because I'll send a mass email to 2000 people who have done translations on elvis, to ask them to create accounts on Fedora (cvsl10n) 21:09 < glezos> Help would be greatly needed for this matter :) 21:09 < glezos> Anyone willing to help update the Translation Quick Start Guide, and probably our wiki pages /Join and/or more help pages? 21:09 < Samiby> ? 21:10 < couf> glezos: eof? 21:10 < glezos> couf: I guess. :) eof 21:10 < couf> > Samiby 21:10 < Samiby> what kind of help is needed ? just update these pages ? eof 21:10 < glezos> Most of the modules will move from elvis to either cvs.fedoraproject.org or some other SCM 21:11 < glezos> so yes, just update and probably put some more introductory text for people not experienced with our tools 21:11 < glezos> eof 21:12 < couf> anybody around with Docs-knowledge, who'd want to help with the TQSG? 21:13 < glezos> ! 21:13 < couf> > glezos 21:14 < glezos> couf: Probably that's more of a Docs issue, no? We could start just by documenting some useful steps/advices, just like we did on wiki/Join, and then think of putting them into more formal text in TQSG 21:14 < glezos> Some help is definitely needed in our wiki domain 21:14 < glezos> eof 21:15 < couf> So let me rephrase then, who'd like to help write up some guidelines with the new info? 21:16 < couf> and/or open a bug on the TQSG with the new info 21:16 < glezos> I can prepare a draft page, or some steps that need better documenting 21:17 < glezos> Someone could for example tidy-up a bit our wiki homepage at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N 21:17 < glezos> it's a mess :) 21:18 < couf> This should probably go onto a Tasks-page, so anyone willing to do so can have a go at it. Comments / suggestions? 21:18 < noriko> ! 21:18 < couf> > noriko 21:19 < noriko> what is rough schedule the things to be done?! 21:19 < glezos> ! 21:19 < noriko> sorry 21:19 < noriko> eof 21:19 < couf> > glezos 21:19 < glezos> On July 5th we'll do the move 21:20 < noriko> pretty soon :) 21:20 < glezos> This Saturday I'll send the email to translators, so they'll start registering on cvsl10n 21:20 < noriko> ! 21:20 < couf> > noriko 21:20 < glezos> noriko: yes.. I've been mentioning this for a while now, and the truth is that we've delayed it too :) 21:20 < noriko> I will have a look TQSG 21:20 < Samiby> ! 21:20 < noriko> welcome anyone else to join 21:20 < noriko> eof 21:21 < couf> thanks noriko 21:21 < couf> > Samiby 21:21 < Samiby> didn't translators were added automatically to cvsl10n group ?(I was ...) 21:21 < Samiby> eof 21:22 < couf> Samiby: so you got added to cvsl10n without adding yourself? 21:22 -!- ricky [i=ricky@fedora/ricky] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:22 < glezos> Samiby: people who have access to i18n.redhat.com do not have an account to the Fedora Account System 21:22 < Samiby> couf> yes 21:23 -!- alefteris [n=alefteri@unaffiliated/alefteris] has joined #fedora-meeting 21:23 < glezos> Anyone who wants to become a member of cvsl10n should ssh-sign the CLA 21:23 -!- runa_b [n=runa@122.169.6.197] has joined #fedora-meeting 21:23 < glezos> eof 21:23 < couf> ! > couf 21:24 < couf> one thing I'd like to ask is that everyone who knows translators, tries to get them into FAS before the move 21:24 < couf> and a second thing, if someone wants to help manage that group (approving members), that would be great 21:24 < couf> eog 21:24 < couf> eof 21:25 < couf> anything else on the move, or can we move on? 21:26 < couf> 5 21:26 < couf> 4 21:26 < couf> 3 21:26 < couf> 2 21:26 < couf> 1 21:26 < couf> okay, next up: updates to translate.fp.o > glezos 21:26 < glezos> l10n.fedoraproject.org redirects now to translate.fpo 21:26 -!- couf changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Localization Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Meetings -- translate.fp.o 21:27 < glezos> The "submit" part is a project called Transifex, which is hosted at https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/transifex 21:27 < glezos> it will probalby be mounted at translate.fpo/submit/ 21:27 < glezos> In case anyone wants to take a quick peek, here's a link to my workstation: http://84.9.194.173:8084/submit/module/fedora-hg/smolt/tip/submit 21:28 < glezos> (not sure it will work at all!) 21:28 < glezos> it's progressing, and I expect to have a working prototype which does commit in 2 days. 21:28 < glezos> eof 21:29 < couf> glezos: will translate.fp.o be our main resource after the move off of elvis? 21:29 < glezos> couf: oh, yeah, forgot to mention that. 21:30 < glezos> translate.fpo will hold the translations and the submit side. It's better if we used the wiki for everything else 21:30 < glezos> The cool thing with this is that some projects will move from elvis to systems *other* than CVS 21:30 < Samiby> ? 21:30 -!- k0k [n=k0k@fedora/k0k] has joined #fedora-meeting 21:30 < glezos> so, do commit to these systems, we'll be able to use Transifex. 21:31 * noriko is having trouble to get there... 21:31 < glezos> for those modules moving to cvs.fpo, we'll have cvs access as well. 21:31 < glezos> eof 21:31 < couf> > Samiby 21:31 < Samiby> he answered my question before i asked it ... eof :) 21:31 -!- ecik [n=ecik@fedora/ecik] has joined #fedora-meeting 21:32 < couf> cool, anyone got something on the website? 21:32 < couf> s/something/something else/ 21:33 < couf> okay, let's move on 21:33 -!- couf changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Localization Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Meetings -- Bugs 21:33 < couf> as you might have seen bugs are coming onto the list 21:34 < couf> right now, it's hopefully configured to be as low traffic as possible 21:34 < couf> if it leads to problems later on, we should maybe think of creating a seperate list for bugs and possibly cvs commits 21:35 < glezos> ! 21:35 < couf> > glezos 21:35 < glezos> On this matter, I've told Infra that we'll create a "Request" list of stuff we'd like them to do 21:35 < glezos> Two examples are: auto-merge po files for Docs and all modules hosted to cvs.fpo, and another one is to forward commits to those POT files to l10n-commits 21:36 < glezos> I'll put up this page shortly. 21:36 < glezos> eof 21:36 -!- couf_ [n=bart@fedora/couf] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:36 -!- couf_ [n=bart@fedora/couf] has joined #fedora-meeting 21:37 < couf> as a general reminder, please take a look at the owners.list and add your language if it doen't exist yet 21:37 < couf> s/doen't/doesn't 21:37 < glezos> *and* in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Teams 21:38 < couf> next topic? 21:39 -!- couf changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Localization Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Meetings -- Wiki translations 21:40 < couf> so this got brought up on the websites-list, we should think of a way to organize this a bit better 21:40 * couf searches list-links 21:40 < glezos> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Wikipages 21:41 < couf> http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-websites-list/2007-June/msg00169.html 21:41 < glezos> Samiby is the person who started it. 21:41 < couf> Samiby: this was your topic, anything you'd like to say on it? 21:41 < Samiby> yes 21:42 < couf> > Samiby 21:42 < Samiby> It was discussed that we'll have to ask art team for flags, and infrastructure team to see if it's possible to manage it automtically 21:42 < Samiby> who is in charge for this ? 21:42 < Samiby> eof 21:42 < glezos> Samiby: you? :) 21:42 < Samiby> err ... ok :) 21:43 < glezos> ! 21:43 < couf> > glezos 21:43 < glezos> Samiby: can you bring this up also on -trans-list so that people know about it? 21:43 < glezos> Samiby: can you make sure everyone is bugged enough so that we fix this? 21:43 < Samiby> I could, but is it necessarry to spread the word about subpages mechanism if infrastructure team can make it automatically ? 21:44 -!- Rasther_ [n=diego@200-101-234-68.fnsce7003.e.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #fedora-meeting 21:44 < glezos> Samiby: it's mostly up to the websites team. And the only way for them to fix it, is someone to tell them "do this because this other approach is worse" 21:45 < Samiby> Ok, so ... i'll ask them. And talk to trans-list. 21:45 < Samiby> eof 21:45 < glezos> BTW, for those who haven't followed the discussion, we're thinking of how to make a wiki page point to its translations 21:45 < glezos> Samiby: cool. 21:45 -!- boto [n=ehabkost@201.21.189.129] has joined #fedora-meeting 21:45 < glezos> couf: you around? 21:46 < vpv> ! 21:46 < glezos> I'd like to leave 10 minutes at the end of the meeting for everyone to discuss whatever one would like 21:46 < glezos> > vpv 21:46 < vpv> I think I saw a new moin feature on #moin-dev that would support translation directly, without sub pages 21:47 < vpv> they had a menu for all the different languages 21:47 < glezos> vpv: cool. Are you subscribed to -websites-list? 21:47 < vpv> but I guess this is still in development and might be many months until released 21:47 < vpv> yes I am 21:47 < Samiby> ! 21:47 < vpv> eof 21:47 < glezos> Samiby: feel free to discuss. 21:48 < Samiby> maybe we could use their work, and patch our wiki from it 21:48 < glezos> vpv: nevertheless, it might be worth it. I mean, if the effort needed to translate with subpages is greater than the effort to put that patch, then we should go for the patch. 21:48 -!- ricky [i=ricky@fedora/ricky] has joined #fedora-meeting 21:48 < glezos> we can discuss this issue on list then. 21:48 < glezos> any other comments? 21:48 < DomingoBecker> ? 21:48 < glezos> (on this topic) 21:48 < glezos> > DomingoBecker 21:49 < DomingoBecker> Did I read well in the list 21:49 < DomingoBecker> someone said that fp.o will start using 21:49 < DomingoBecker> plone 21:49 < DomingoBecker> eof 21:49 < glezos> yes 21:50 < DomingoBecker> ! 21:50 < glezos> as far as I know, two people are working on it 21:50 < glezos> DomingoBecker: speak freely. :) 21:50 < glezos> daMaestro is the one (one of the developers of revisor) 21:50 < DomingoBecker> then this issue should be resolved when the wiki uses plone 21:50 < glezos> They are adding i18n capabilities, so it will be translatable. 21:51 < glezos> DomingoBecker: the wiki will continue to exist 21:51 < glezos> DomingoBecker: it's just the static pages at http://fedoraproject.org/ and docs.fpo that will use Plone 21:51 < DomingoBecker> ah, ok 21:51 < DomingoBecker> the wiki will continue using moin 21:51 < glezos> The wiki will still be used for development and collaborative effort. However, *some* content will be moved, which is great beacuse it will be localizable. 21:51 < glezos> yes 21:51 < glezos> couf: back? 21:51 < couf> glezos: yep 21:52 < DomingoBecker> eof 21:52 < couf> glezos: for as much as I know, plone will be used for more then just the static-pages 21:52 < couf> basic project-pages will be in plone aswell 21:53 < glezos> couf: Right. But that's like 2% of our content. :) 21:53 < couf> true, but it's the most important content to translate, and that's a good goal :-) 21:53 < glezos> right. 21:54 -!- Rasther [n=diego@fedora/Rasther] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:54 < glezos> I'm eof for this subject btw 21:55 < couf> okay, sorry, and other comments to the wiki-trans? 21:56 < glezos> Yes! 21:56 < glezos> heh, forgot to say 21:56 < couf> > glezos :-) 21:56 < glezos> I already stepped forward and added the CSS needed for a box, in case someone would like to start using it. We can change it, etc. But anyway, we'll discuss this on the ML to see if we are going to use it at all. 21:56 < glezos> eof 21:56 < vpv> ok, one point: moin multilang seems to be based on a wikifarm, maybe too "overkill" for l10n use here 21:57 < couf> wikifarm? ouch :-/ 21:58 < couf> okay, everyone agree that we should move this to the list? 21:59 < glezos> couf: yea, not much to discuss now 22:00 < couf> all right, so we're on the one-hour mark, shall we continue? 22:01 < glezos> couf: I'd really like if we had some time for anyone who would like to say anything 22:01 < glezos> (although that someone should have put it on the agenda...:) 22:02 < couf> sure, and that was going to be the next item in we weren't going to continue :-) 22:02 < glezos> fabian_a: you found a maintainer for your lang? :) 22:02 < couf> but first a little topic, that we need to get some agreement on 22:03 -!- couf changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Localization Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Meetings -- Meeting times 22:03 < couf> maybe it's best to get a general idea right here and bring it to the list 22:04 < couf> I recall the fact of having two different meeting hours 22:04 < runa_b> ! 22:04 < couf> > runa_b 22:05 < runa_b> couf: i was going to say the same thing :) 22:05 < runa_b> eof 22:05 < couf> cool :-) 22:06 < couf> so anyone have suggestions on hours (frequency is still a list-item) 22:06 < noriko> +1 to couf and runa_b 22:07 < glezos> so, how about UTC15? 22:08 < fabian_a> ! 22:08 < couf> glezos: good for me 22:08 < couf> > fabian_a 22:09 < fabian_a> i prefer more the evenings...but the problem are the different time zones 22:09 < fabian_a> eof 22:10 < couf> right, I'm thinking an hour in European-evening, which should be doable for America and an hour that suits for APAC and could be doable to others 22:11 < glezos> couf: maybe a wiki page with 5-10 suggestions would help us decide. 22:12 < runa_b> +1 glezos 22:12 < runa_b> ! 22:12 < couf> +1 glezos 22:12 < couf> > runa_b 22:12 < runa_b> imho a minimum of 3 meeting times are required so as to have each geo get atleast one good or bad time 22:12 < fabian_a> +1 glezos 22:12 < runa_b> eof 22:13 -!- k0k [n=k0k@fedora/k0k] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:13 < glezos> 3 times is an overkill :) 22:13 < glezos> Probably we can make it with 2. Besides, we post the log on the list, so anyone can discuss any issue brought in the meeting. 22:14 -!- JSchmitt [n=s4504kr@fedora/JSchmitt] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 22:14 < glezos> Hopefully we can make it with 2. If not, we can see what to do from there. 22:14 < glezos> anyone willing to coordinate the effort to find a proper second time? 22:15 < runa_b> ! 22:15 < couf> > runa_b 22:15 < runa_b> can we have a page on the wiki for suitable times..i guess there was some link pointed out last time. 22:15 < runa_b> eof 22:16 < noriko> very nice to have it 22:16 < glezos> runa_b: the link was http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen/MeetingTimes 22:16 < glezos> but that's probably too much 22:16 < couf> so question still remains, anyone want to put a foot down and get this going? 22:16 < glezos> Here's a table with 4 important locations: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?day=26&month=6&am... 22:16 < runa_b> ! 22:17 < couf> > runa_b 22:17 < runa_b> i can volunteer for the task. 22:17 < runa_b> eof 22:18 < couf> all right cool, anyone want to help runa_b? 22:18 < glezos> runa_b: anyone who volunteers for something doesn't need to use "!" and "eof" :) 22:18 < runa_b> heh 22:20 < couf> no one? okay thanks runa_b 22:20 < runa_b> :) 22:21 < couf> so anyone want to tell / ask / say anything about everything concerning L10N? 22:21 -!- couf changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Localization Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Meetings -- Open floor 22:22 < couf> I've got a question: are these meetings helpfull? 22:22 < runa_b> yes very much 22:22 < Raven46> couf: +1 ;) 22:22 < noriko> +1 we see more ppl than last time :-) 22:22 < Samiby> yes, it helps to move forward within the team ... to go faster :) 22:23 < couf> heh great :-) 22:23 < vpv> and it builds more of a community instead of everyone just working alone 22:23 < couf> all righty, than anyone want to chair next week, b/c I'm not gonna be around 22:24 < glezos> couf: we can decide then 22:24 < couf> okay 22:24 -!- Pingoomax [n=Maxime@fedora/Pingoomax] has joined #fedora-meeting 22:24 < couf> anything else 22:24 < noriko> ! 22:24 < couf> > noriko 22:24 < noriko> when is next ? :) 22:24 -!- kital [n=Joerg_Si@fedora/kital] has left #fedora-meeting ["Konversation terminated!"] 22:25 < couf> ah next week, I presume? 22:25 < noriko> do we get decision byweekly or weekly, monthly? 22:25 < noriko> biweekly 22:25 < noriko> eof 22:25 < couf> right, that's still on the list, maybe get that done by next week? 22:25 < noriko> sure 22:26 < glezos> I've got a small surprise before closing. Mike just told me he enabled a full list of languages in the smolt statistics page, instead of just the first 10. 22:26 < glezos> http://smolt.fedoraproject.org/stats 22:26 < glezos> tab "Languages" :) 22:27 < couf> nice, Marvelous Mike does it again :-) 22:27 < vpv> great :) 22:27 < glezos> mmcgrath: thanks from l10n 22:27 < Raven46> but pl_PL still isn't here (there was a crash with Polish trans of smolt, fixed recently)... :( 22:28 < Raven46> ops, it is, but not so many ;) 22:28 < couf> so, anything else 22:28 * couf starts countdown 22:28 < couf> 10 22:28 < couf> 9 22:28 -!- mether [i=ask@fedora/mether] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:28 < couf> 8 22:28 < couf> 7 22:28 < couf> 6 22:28 < couf> 5 22:28 < couf> 4 22:28 < couf> 3 22:28 < couf> 2 22:28 < couf> 1 22:28 < couf> </meeting>