Hi Jérôme,
Great to hear that your team has targeted the Installation Guide in this way.
The Installation Guide is actually translated on Zanata now, which is why you've encountered these issues in the Transifex project.
I've also consolidated the Installation Quick Start Guide into the Installation Guide repo, so there are a list of files that would ideally be translated first so that the Quick Start Guide can be ready sooner.
An explanation of this: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/trans/2013-February/010551.html
And an explanation of the move to Zanata: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/docs/2012-July/014465.html
And the project itself: https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/fedora-installation-guide
Let me know if you have any more questions.
Cheers,
Jack
On 04/26/2013 06:19 AM, Jérôme Fenal wrote:
Hi there,
The French team is considering making a special effort to advance French translation of the Fedora Installation Guide.
We however have a number of issues which do not ease its translation :
- 877 different resources visible in Transifex, of which
- a lot are read-only and not accepting translations,
- a lot are one-liners, or to be correct, one stringers.
Could we please have a status about this guide (are there parts not to translate), and can we expect a cleanup of its setup in Transifex (major sections only, not more one-stringers)?
Regards,
-- Jérôme Fenal
Hi Jack,
Thanks for the pointers and the explanation. Do you know why the Install Guide has not been cleared from Transifex after a backup? People are still translating the non disabled part of it, and having it rot having translated & disabled is not satisfying either. Do I need to file a BZ to get it removed entirely from Transifex?
As people come and go on a regular basis, could we also think of having a regular newsletter which would remind to everybody such moves?
Regards,
J.
2013/4/30 Jack Reed jreed@redhat.com
Hi Jérôme,
Great to hear that your team has targeted the Installation Guide in this way.
The Installation Guide is actually translated on Zanata now, which is why you've encountered these issues in the Transifex project.
I've also consolidated the Installation Quick Start Guide into the Installation Guide repo, so there are a list of files that would ideally be translated first so that the Quick Start Guide can be ready sooner.
An explanation of this: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/trans/2013-February/010551.html
And an explanation of the move to Zanata: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/docs/2012-July/014465.html
And the project itself: https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/fedora-installation-guide
Let me know if you have any more questions.
Cheers,
Jack
On 04/26/2013 06:19 AM, Jérôme Fenal wrote:
Hi there,
The French team is considering making a special effort to advance French translation of the Fedora Installation Guide.
We however have a number of issues which do not ease its translation :
- 877 different resources visible in Transifex, of which
- a lot are read-only and not accepting translations,
- a lot are one-liners, or to be correct, one stringers.
Could we please have a status about this guide (are there parts not to translate), and can we expect a cleanup of its setup in Transifex (major sections only, not more one-stringers)?
Regards,
-- Jérôme Fenal
-- Jack Reed Content Author Engineering Content Services
Red Hat Asia Pacific Brisbane, Australia Phone: +617 3514 8184
-- docs mailing list docs@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/docs
Hi Jérôme, and other translators who have worked on the Installation Guide lately,
I was shocked to discover that there were so many files still accepting translation, because Alick Zhao and I blocked all the files in this project many months ago.
But I've discovered the cause. 2 months ago, in an attempt to further troubleshoot the problems we had with the project on Transifex, a couple of us did test pushes to try and get all the files on to Transifex's servers. Previously - including at the point when Alick and I blocked the files - the project contained less than half of the files it was supposed to, which was one of the reasons we moved the project to Zanata.
In working through that bug on github, the issue was resolved and we pushed all the files. However, because all work had moved to Zanata, I failed to consider that these newly added files needed to be blocked too.
Although the Docs Project Guide Table [1] directs translators to Zanata for work on both installation guides, obviously experienced Fedora translators are going to check Transifex first. So when you found files that could be translated, you understandably proceeded. This is a consequence of, as you say, there not being a way to inform all translators, without fail, of such changes, or because I was not aware of how to do so.
Because we want to leave the Transifex project open in the event that it is viable to return translation of the Installation Guide there, I will manually block the new files from accepting translations. However, if Dimitris or someone else knows a way to block access to the project entirely without deleting it, that would be the most future-proof method.
I would also appreciate any suggestions of where else the move to Zanata should be publicised to help avoid confusion in future.
I apologise to the translators who have worked on this project in Transifex since these new files were added. I had to push F17 files for testing purposes, so I'm sorry to say that your work will need to be redone in Zanata. I regret that the difficulties we have had managing this large guide have caused further problems. There have been a lot of plates to keep spinning.
Please let me know if you have any further questions or concerns.
Thanks,
Jack
[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_guides_table
On 04/30/2013 05:36 PM, Jérôme Fenal wrote:
Hi Jack,
Thanks for the pointers and the explanation. Do you know why the Install Guide has not been cleared from Transifex after a backup? People are still translating the non disabled part of it, and having it rot having translated & disabled is not satisfying either. Do I need to file a BZ to get it removed entirely from Transifex?
As people come and go on a regular basis, could we also think of having a regular newsletter which would remind to everybody such moves?
Regards,
J.
2013/4/30 Jack Reed <jreed@redhat.com mailto:jreed@redhat.com>
Hi Jérôme, Great to hear that your team has targeted the Installation Guide in this way. The Installation Guide is actually translated on Zanata now, which is why you've encountered these issues in the Transifex project. I've also consolidated the Installation Quick Start Guide into the Installation Guide repo, so there are a list of files that would ideally be translated first so that the Quick Start Guide can be ready sooner. An explanation of this: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/trans/2013-February/010551.html And an explanation of the move to Zanata: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/docs/2012-July/014465.html And the project itself: https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/fedora-installation-guide Let me know if you have any more questions. Cheers, Jack On 04/26/2013 06:19 AM, Jérôme Fenal wrote:Hi there, The French team is considering making a special effort to advance French translation of the Fedora Installation Guide. We however have a number of issues which do not ease its translation : - 877 different resources visible in Transifex, of which - a lot are read-only and not accepting translations, - a lot are one-liners, or to be correct, one stringers. Could we please have a status about this guide (are there parts not to translate), and can we expect a cleanup of its setup in Transifex (major sections only, not more one-stringers)? Regards, -- Jérôme Fenal-- Jack Reed Content Author Engineering Content Services Red Hat Asia Pacific Brisbane, Australia Phone:+617 3514 8184 <tel:%2B617%203514%208184> -- docs mailing list docs@lists.fedoraproject.org <mailto:docs@lists.fedoraproject.org> To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/docs-- Jérôme Fenal
-- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
Hi Jack,
No worries, I've indeed stopped people to translate the Install Guide on Transifex on trans-fr. I also need to compile all the .po and try to see if I can push them to Zanata (any API on Zanata?).
In order to fix the process in the mean time, I will organize a regular news/FAQ/roadmap mail on the trans-fr list.
Maybe we can plan to do so on the trans list as well, informing which new guides are coming (Defensive coding which appeared a bit out of the blue), which have been replaced (Deployment -> SAG/Storage), etc.
That would also be interesting in the light of F19 coming, for instance with pointers to the F19 schedule, with reminders of the work that will be coming (release notes, mandatory docs, etc.).
Regards,
J.
2013/5/1 Jack Reed jreed@redhat.com
Hi Jérôme, and other translators who have worked on the Installation Guide lately,
I was shocked to discover that there were so many files still accepting translation, because Alick Zhao and I blocked all the files in this project many months ago.
But I've discovered the cause. 2 months ago, in an attempt to further troubleshoot the problems we had with the project on Transifex, a couple of us did test pushes to try and get all the files on to Transifex's servers. Previously - including at the point when Alick and I blocked the files - the project contained less than half of the files it was supposed to, which was one of the reasons we moved the project to Zanata.
In working through that bug on github, the issue was resolved and we pushed all the files. However, because all work had moved to Zanata, I failed to consider that these newly added files needed to be blocked too.
Although the Docs Project Guide Table [1] directs translators to Zanata for work on both installation guides, obviously experienced Fedora translators are going to check Transifex first. So when you found files that could be translated, you understandably proceeded. This is a consequence of, as you say, there not being a way to inform all translators, without fail, of such changes, or because I was not aware of how to do so.
Because we want to leave the Transifex project open in the event that it is viable to return translation of the Installation Guide there, I will manually block the new files from accepting translations. However, if Dimitris or someone else knows a way to block access to the project entirely without deleting it, that would be the most future-proof method.
I would also appreciate any suggestions of where else the move to Zanata should be publicised to help avoid confusion in future.
I apologise to the translators who have worked on this project in Transifex since these new files were added. I had to push F17 files for testing purposes, so I'm sorry to say that your work will need to be redone in Zanata. I regret that the difficulties we have had managing this large guide have caused further problems. There have been a lot of plates to keep spinning.
Please let me know if you have any further questions or concerns.
Thanks,
Jack
[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_guides_table
On 04/30/2013 05:36 PM, Jérôme Fenal wrote:
Hi Jack,
Thanks for the pointers and the explanation. Do you know why the Install Guide has not been cleared from Transifex after a backup? People are still translating the non disabled part of it, and having it rot having translated & disabled is not satisfying either. Do I need to file a BZ to get it removed entirely from Transifex?
As people come and go on a regular basis, could we also think of having a regular newsletter which would remind to everybody such moves?
Regards,
J.
2013/4/30 Jack Reed jreed@redhat.com
Hi Jérôme,
Great to hear that your team has targeted the Installation Guide in this way.
The Installation Guide is actually translated on Zanata now, which is why you've encountered these issues in the Transifex project.
I've also consolidated the Installation Quick Start Guide into the Installation Guide repo, so there are a list of files that would ideally be translated first so that the Quick Start Guide can be ready sooner.
An explanation of this: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/trans/2013-February/010551.html
And an explanation of the move to Zanata: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/docs/2012-July/014465.html
And the project itself: https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/fedora-installation-guide
Let me know if you have any more questions.
Cheers,
Jack
On 04/26/2013 06:19 AM, Jérôme Fenal wrote:
Hi there,
The French team is considering making a special effort to advance French translation of the Fedora Installation Guide.
We however have a number of issues which do not ease its translation :
- 877 different resources visible in Transifex, of which
- a lot are read-only and not accepting translations,
- a lot are one-liners, or to be correct, one stringers.
Could we please have a status about this guide (are there parts not to translate), and can we expect a cleanup of its setup in Transifex (major sections only, not more one-stringers)?
Regards,
-- Jérôme Fenal
-- Jack Reed Content Author Engineering Content Services
Red Hat Asia Pacific Brisbane, Australia Phone: +617 3514 8184
-- docs mailing list docs@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/docs
-- Jérôme Fenal
-- trans mailing listtrans@lists.fedoraproject.orghttps://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
-- Jack Reed Content Author Engineering Content Services
Red Hat Asia Pacific Brisbane, Australia Phone: +617 3514 8184
-- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
Thanks for passing this on to the French team, Jérôme.
Unfortunately though, as I said, the pot files that were uploaded two months ago during the test were for f17, not f18, which I've confirmed by looking at certain strings. I understand that this means labour has been wasted, and I apologise for the oversight.
Not all pot files were updated for f18, of course, but I'm not aware of a way to distinguish them and then push the po files that are still current into Zanata. If anyone has an idea about this, which would enable us to re-use some of the stranded translations, please let us know.
I agree that more consistent notifications for trans-list would be valuable. I don't have enough knowledge of existing trans-list practices to know where improvements can be made, but I'll help any way I can. I've CC'd Pete Travis, the Fedora docs lead, so he can mull this over too.
Thanks,
Jack
On 05/02/2013 06:10 PM, Jérôme Fenal wrote:
Hi Jack,
No worries, I've indeed stopped people to translate the Install Guide on Transifex on trans-fr. I also need to compile all the .po and try to see if I can push them to Zanata (any API on Zanata?).
In order to fix the process in the mean time, I will organize a regular news/FAQ/roadmap mail on the trans-fr list.
Maybe we can plan to do so on the trans list as well, informing which new guides are coming (Defensive coding which appeared a bit out of the blue), which have been replaced (Deployment -> SAG/Storage), etc.
That would also be interesting in the light of F19 coming, for instance with pointers to the F19 schedule, with reminders of the work that will be coming (release notes, mandatory docs, etc.).
Regards,
J.
2013/5/1 Jack Reed <jreed@redhat.com mailto:jreed@redhat.com>
Hi Jérôme, and other translators who have worked on the Installation Guide lately, I was shocked to discover that there were so many files still accepting translation, because Alick Zhao and I blocked all the files in this project many months ago. But I've discovered the cause. 2 months ago, in an attempt to further troubleshoot the problems we had with the project on Transifex, a couple of us did test pushes to try and get all the files on to Transifex's servers. Previously - including at the point when Alick and I blocked the files - the project contained less than half of the files it was supposed to, which was one of the reasons we moved the project to Zanata. In working through that bug on github, the issue was resolved and we pushed all the files. However, because all work had moved to Zanata, I failed to consider that these newly added files needed to be blocked too. Although the Docs Project Guide Table [1] directs translators to Zanata for work on both installation guides, obviously experienced Fedora translators are going to check Transifex first. So when you found files that could be translated, you understandably proceeded. This is a consequence of, as you say, there not being a way to inform all translators, without fail, of such changes, or because I was not aware of how to do so. Because we want to leave the Transifex project open in the event that it is viable to return translation of the Installation Guide there, I will manually block the new files from accepting translations. However, if Dimitris or someone else knows a way to block access to the project entirely without deleting it, that would be the most future-proof method. I would also appreciate any suggestions of where else the move to Zanata should be publicised to help avoid confusion in future. I apologise to the translators who have worked on this project in Transifex since these new files were added. I had to push F17 files for testing purposes, so I'm sorry to say that your work will need to be redone in Zanata. I regret that the difficulties we have had managing this large guide have caused further problems. There have been a lot of plates to keep spinning. Please let me know if you have any further questions or concerns. Thanks, Jack [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_guides_table On 04/30/2013 05:36 PM, Jérôme Fenal wrote:Hi Jack, Thanks for the pointers and the explanation. Do you know why the Install Guide has not been cleared from Transifex after a backup? People are still translating the non disabled part of it, and having it rot having translated & disabled is not satisfying either. Do I need to file a BZ to get it removed entirely from Transifex? As people come and go on a regular basis, could we also think of having a regular newsletter which would remind to everybody such moves? Regards, J. 2013/4/30 Jack Reed <jreed@redhat.com <mailto:jreed@redhat.com>> Hi Jérôme, Great to hear that your team has targeted the Installation Guide in this way. The Installation Guide is actually translated on Zanata now, which is why you've encountered these issues in the Transifex project. I've also consolidated the Installation Quick Start Guide into the Installation Guide repo, so there are a list of files that would ideally be translated first so that the Quick Start Guide can be ready sooner. An explanation of this: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/trans/2013-February/010551.html And an explanation of the move to Zanata: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/docs/2012-July/014465.html And the project itself: https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/fedora-installation-guide Let me know if you have any more questions. Cheers, Jack On 04/26/2013 06:19 AM, Jérôme Fenal wrote:Hi there, The French team is considering making a special effort to advance French translation of the Fedora Installation Guide. We however have a number of issues which do not ease its translation : - 877 different resources visible in Transifex, of which - a lot are read-only and not accepting translations, - a lot are one-liners, or to be correct, one stringers. Could we please have a status about this guide (are there parts not to translate), and can we expect a cleanup of its setup in Transifex (major sections only, not more one-stringers)? Regards, -- Jérôme Fenal-- Jack Reed Content Author Engineering Content Services Red Hat Asia Pacific Brisbane, Australia Phone:+617 3514 8184 <tel:%2B617%203514%208184> -- docs mailing list docs@lists.fedoraproject.org <mailto:docs@lists.fedoraproject.org> To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/docs -- Jérôme Fenal -- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org <mailto:trans@lists.fedoraproject.org> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans-- Jack Reed Content Author Engineering Content Services Red Hat Asia Pacific Brisbane, Australia Phone:+617 3514 8184 <tel:%2B617%203514%208184> -- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org <mailto:trans@lists.fedoraproject.org> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans-- Jérôme Fenal
-- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
Not sure if it helps, but you can use Transifex's Translation Memory to re-use the work already done. If you check the checkbox "Fill-up translations from the TM", Tx will search in the TM and if it finds 100% matches in English, it will re-use existing translations. For strings which were slightly modified, translators will be able to see the 60-100% matches in the editor when translating, thus re-using similar translations from the past.
-d
On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 6:43 PM, Jack Reed jreed@redhat.com wrote:
Thanks for passing this on to the French team, Jérôme.
Unfortunately though, as I said, the pot files that were uploaded two months ago during the test were for f17, not f18, which I've confirmed by looking at certain strings. I understand that this means labour has been wasted, and I apologise for the oversight.
Not all pot files were updated for f18, of course, but I'm not aware of a way to distinguish them and then push the po files that are still current into Zanata. If anyone has an idea about this, which would enable us to re-use some of the stranded translations, please let us know.
I agree that more consistent notifications for trans-list would be valuable. I don't have enough knowledge of existing trans-list practices to know where improvements can be made, but I'll help any way I can. I've CC'd Pete Travis, the Fedora docs lead, so he can mull this over too.
Thanks,
Jack
On 05/02/2013 06:10 PM, Jérôme Fenal wrote:
Hi Jack,
No worries, I've indeed stopped people to translate the Install Guide on Transifex on trans-fr. I also need to compile all the .po and try to see if I can push them to Zanata (any API on Zanata?).
In order to fix the process in the mean time, I will organize a regular news/FAQ/roadmap mail on the trans-fr list.
Maybe we can plan to do so on the trans list as well, informing which new guides are coming (Defensive coding which appeared a bit out of the blue), which have been replaced (Deployment -> SAG/Storage), etc.
That would also be interesting in the light of F19 coming, for instance with pointers to the F19 schedule, with reminders of the work that will be coming (release notes, mandatory docs, etc.).
Regards,
J.
2013/5/1 Jack Reed jreed@redhat.com
Hi Jérôme, and other translators who have worked on the Installation Guide lately,
I was shocked to discover that there were so many files still accepting translation, because Alick Zhao and I blocked all the files in this project many months ago.
But I've discovered the cause. 2 months ago, in an attempt to further troubleshoot the problems we had with the project on Transifex, a couple of us did test pushes to try and get all the files on to Transifex's servers. Previously - including at the point when Alick and I blocked the files - the project contained less than half of the files it was supposed to, which was one of the reasons we moved the project to Zanata.
In working through that bug on github, the issue was resolved and we pushed all the files. However, because all work had moved to Zanata, I failed to consider that these newly added files needed to be blocked too.
Although the Docs Project Guide Table [1] directs translators to Zanata for work on both installation guides, obviously experienced Fedora translators are going to check Transifex first. So when you found files that could be translated, you understandably proceeded. This is a consequence of, as you say, there not being a way to inform all translators, without fail, of such changes, or because I was not aware of how to do so.
Because we want to leave the Transifex project open in the event that it is viable to return translation of the Installation Guide there, I will manually block the new files from accepting translations. However, if Dimitris or someone else knows a way to block access to the project entirely without deleting it, that would be the most future-proof method.
I would also appreciate any suggestions of where else the move to Zanata should be publicised to help avoid confusion in future.
I apologise to the translators who have worked on this project in Transifex since these new files were added. I had to push F17 files for testing purposes, so I'm sorry to say that your work will need to be redone in Zanata. I regret that the difficulties we have had managing this large guide have caused further problems. There have been a lot of plates to keep spinning.
Please let me know if you have any further questions or concerns.
Thanks,
Jack
[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_guides_table
On 04/30/2013 05:36 PM, Jérôme Fenal wrote:
Hi Jack,
Thanks for the pointers and the explanation. Do you know why the Install Guide has not been cleared from Transifex after a backup? People are still translating the non disabled part of it, and having it rot having translated & disabled is not satisfying either. Do I need to file a BZ to get it removed entirely from Transifex?
As people come and go on a regular basis, could we also think of having a regular newsletter which would remind to everybody such moves?
Regards,
J.
2013/4/30 Jack Reed jreed@redhat.com
Hi Jérôme,
Great to hear that your team has targeted the Installation Guide in this way.
The Installation Guide is actually translated on Zanata now, which is why you've encountered these issues in the Transifex project.
I've also consolidated the Installation Quick Start Guide into the Installation Guide repo, so there are a list of files that would ideally be translated first so that the Quick Start Guide can be ready sooner.
An explanation of this: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/trans/2013-February/010551.html
And an explanation of the move to Zanata: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/docs/2012-July/014465.html
And the project itself: https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/fedora-installation-guide
Let me know if you have any more questions.
Cheers,
Jack
On 04/26/2013 06:19 AM, Jérôme Fenal wrote:
Hi there,
The French team is considering making a special effort to advance French translation of the Fedora Installation Guide.
We however have a number of issues which do not ease its translation :
- 877 different resources visible in Transifex, of which
- a lot are read-only and not accepting translations,
- a lot are one-liners, or to be correct, one stringers.
Could we please have a status about this guide (are there parts not to translate), and can we expect a cleanup of its setup in Transifex (major sections only, not more one-stringers)?
Regards,
-- Jérôme Fenal
-- Jack Reed Content Author Engineering Content Services
Red Hat Asia Pacific Brisbane, Australia Phone: +617 3514 8184
-- docs mailing list docs@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/docs
-- Jérôme Fenal
-- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
-- Jack Reed Content Author Engineering Content Services
Red Hat Asia Pacific Brisbane, Australia Phone: +617 3514 8184
-- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
-- Jérôme Fenal
-- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
-- Jack Reed Content Author Engineering Content Services
Red Hat Asia Pacific Brisbane, Australia Phone: +617 3514 8184
-- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
Thanks Dimitris, but because Zanata can't yet accept TM files, we can't re-use the translation files in this way. The flexibility of TMX to salvage any translated material that remains current is excellent, but sadly can't be exploited in this case.
Unless I'm misunderstanding the technicalities, so feel free to correct me. :)
Jack
On 05/03/2013 12:06 PM, Dimitris Glezos wrote:
Not sure if it helps, but you can use Transifex's Translation Memory to re-use the work already done. If you check the checkbox "Fill-up translations from the TM", Tx will search in the TM and if it finds 100% matches in English, it will re-use existing translations. For strings which were slightly modified, translators will be able to see the 60-100% matches in the editor when translating, thus re-using similar translations from the past.
-d
On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 6:43 PM, Jack Reed jreed@redhat.com wrote:
Thanks for passing this on to the French team, Jérôme.
Unfortunately though, as I said, the pot files that were uploaded two months ago during the test were for f17, not f18, which I've confirmed by looking at certain strings. I understand that this means labour has been wasted, and I apologise for the oversight.
Not all pot files were updated for f18, of course, but I'm not aware of a way to distinguish them and then push the po files that are still current into Zanata. If anyone has an idea about this, which would enable us to re-use some of the stranded translations, please let us know.
I agree that more consistent notifications for trans-list would be valuable. I don't have enough knowledge of existing trans-list practices to know where improvements can be made, but I'll help any way I can. I've CC'd Pete Travis, the Fedora docs lead, so he can mull this over too.
Thanks,
Jack
On 05/02/2013 06:10 PM, Jérôme Fenal wrote:
Hi Jack,
No worries, I've indeed stopped people to translate the Install Guide on Transifex on trans-fr. I also need to compile all the .po and try to see if I can push them to Zanata (any API on Zanata?).
In order to fix the process in the mean time, I will organize a regular news/FAQ/roadmap mail on the trans-fr list.
Maybe we can plan to do so on the trans list as well, informing which new guides are coming (Defensive coding which appeared a bit out of the blue), which have been replaced (Deployment -> SAG/Storage), etc.
That would also be interesting in the light of F19 coming, for instance with pointers to the F19 schedule, with reminders of the work that will be coming (release notes, mandatory docs, etc.).
Regards,
J.
2013/5/1 Jack Reed jreed@redhat.com
Hi Jérôme, and other translators who have worked on the Installation Guide lately,
I was shocked to discover that there were so many files still accepting translation, because Alick Zhao and I blocked all the files in this project many months ago.
But I've discovered the cause. 2 months ago, in an attempt to further troubleshoot the problems we had with the project on Transifex, a couple of us did test pushes to try and get all the files on to Transifex's servers. Previously - including at the point when Alick and I blocked the files - the project contained less than half of the files it was supposed to, which was one of the reasons we moved the project to Zanata.
In working through that bug on github, the issue was resolved and we pushed all the files. However, because all work had moved to Zanata, I failed to consider that these newly added files needed to be blocked too.
Although the Docs Project Guide Table [1] directs translators to Zanata for work on both installation guides, obviously experienced Fedora translators are going to check Transifex first. So when you found files that could be translated, you understandably proceeded. This is a consequence of, as you say, there not being a way to inform all translators, without fail, of such changes, or because I was not aware of how to do so.
Because we want to leave the Transifex project open in the event that it is viable to return translation of the Installation Guide there, I will manually block the new files from accepting translations. However, if Dimitris or someone else knows a way to block access to the project entirely without deleting it, that would be the most future-proof method.
I would also appreciate any suggestions of where else the move to Zanata should be publicised to help avoid confusion in future.
I apologise to the translators who have worked on this project in Transifex since these new files were added. I had to push F17 files for testing purposes, so I'm sorry to say that your work will need to be redone in Zanata. I regret that the difficulties we have had managing this large guide have caused further problems. There have been a lot of plates to keep spinning.
Please let me know if you have any further questions or concerns.
Thanks,
Jack
[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_guides_table
On 04/30/2013 05:36 PM, Jérôme Fenal wrote:
Hi Jack,
Thanks for the pointers and the explanation. Do you know why the Install Guide has not been cleared from Transifex after a backup? People are still translating the non disabled part of it, and having it rot having translated & disabled is not satisfying either. Do I need to file a BZ to get it removed entirely from Transifex?
As people come and go on a regular basis, could we also think of having a regular newsletter which would remind to everybody such moves?
Regards,
J.
2013/4/30 Jack Reed jreed@redhat.com
Hi Jérôme,
Great to hear that your team has targeted the Installation Guide in this way.
The Installation Guide is actually translated on Zanata now, which is why you've encountered these issues in the Transifex project.
I've also consolidated the Installation Quick Start Guide into the Installation Guide repo, so there are a list of files that would ideally be translated first so that the Quick Start Guide can be ready sooner.
An explanation of this: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/trans/2013-February/010551.html
And an explanation of the move to Zanata: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/docs/2012-July/014465.html
And the project itself: https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/fedora-installation-guide
Let me know if you have any more questions.
Cheers,
Jack
On 04/26/2013 06:19 AM, Jérôme Fenal wrote:
Hi there,
The French team is considering making a special effort to advance French translation of the Fedora Installation Guide.
We however have a number of issues which do not ease its translation :
- 877 different resources visible in Transifex, of which
- a lot are read-only and not accepting translations,
- a lot are one-liners, or to be correct, one stringers.
Could we please have a status about this guide (are there parts not to translate), and can we expect a cleanup of its setup in Transifex (major sections only, not more one-stringers)?
Regards,
-- Jérôme Fenal
-- Jack Reed Content Author Engineering Content Services
Red Hat Asia Pacific Brisbane, Australia Phone: +617 3514 8184
-- docs mailing list docs@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/docs
-- Jérôme Fenal
-- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
-- Jack Reed Content Author Engineering Content Services
Red Hat Asia Pacific Brisbane, Australia Phone: +617 3514 8184
-- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
-- Jérôme Fenal
-- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
-- Jack Reed Content Author Engineering Content Services
Red Hat Asia Pacific Brisbane, Australia Phone: +617 3514 8184
-- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
FYI, all translation files in the Transifex Installation Guide project are now blocked from accepting translations, as promised.
Jack
On 05/03/2013 11:43 AM, Jack Reed wrote:
Thanks for passing this on to the French team, Jérôme.
Unfortunately though, as I said, the pot files that were uploaded two months ago during the test were for f17, not f18, which I've confirmed by looking at certain strings. I understand that this means labour has been wasted, and I apologise for the oversight.
Not all pot files were updated for f18, of course, but I'm not aware of a way to distinguish them and then push the po files that are still current into Zanata. If anyone has an idea about this, which would enable us to re-use some of the stranded translations, please let us know.
I agree that more consistent notifications for trans-list would be valuable. I don't have enough knowledge of existing trans-list practices to know where improvements can be made, but I'll help any way I can. I've CC'd Pete Travis, the Fedora docs lead, so he can mull this over too.
Thanks,
Jack
On 05/02/2013 06:10 PM, Jérôme Fenal wrote:
Hi Jack,
No worries, I've indeed stopped people to translate the Install Guide on Transifex on trans-fr. I also need to compile all the .po and try to see if I can push them to Zanata (any API on Zanata?).
In order to fix the process in the mean time, I will organize a regular news/FAQ/roadmap mail on the trans-fr list.
Maybe we can plan to do so on the trans list as well, informing which new guides are coming (Defensive coding which appeared a bit out of the blue), which have been replaced (Deployment -> SAG/Storage), etc.
That would also be interesting in the light of F19 coming, for instance with pointers to the F19 schedule, with reminders of the work that will be coming (release notes, mandatory docs, etc.).
Regards,
J.
2013/5/1 Jack Reed <jreed@redhat.com mailto:jreed@redhat.com>
Hi Jérôme, and other translators who have worked on the Installation Guide lately, I was shocked to discover that there were so many files still accepting translation, because Alick Zhao and I blocked all the files in this project many months ago. But I've discovered the cause. 2 months ago, in an attempt to further troubleshoot the problems we had with the project on Transifex, a couple of us did test pushes to try and get all the files on to Transifex's servers. Previously - including at the point when Alick and I blocked the files - the project contained less than half of the files it was supposed to, which was one of the reasons we moved the project to Zanata. In working through that bug on github, the issue was resolved and we pushed all the files. However, because all work had moved to Zanata, I failed to consider that these newly added files needed to be blocked too. Although the Docs Project Guide Table [1] directs translators to Zanata for work on both installation guides, obviously experienced Fedora translators are going to check Transifex first. So when you found files that could be translated, you understandably proceeded. This is a consequence of, as you say, there not being a way to inform all translators, without fail, of such changes, or because I was not aware of how to do so. Because we want to leave the Transifex project open in the event that it is viable to return translation of the Installation Guide there, I will manually block the new files from accepting translations. However, if Dimitris or someone else knows a way to block access to the project entirely without deleting it, that would be the most future-proof method. I would also appreciate any suggestions of where else the move to Zanata should be publicised to help avoid confusion in future. I apologise to the translators who have worked on this project in Transifex since these new files were added. I had to push F17 files for testing purposes, so I'm sorry to say that your work will need to be redone in Zanata. I regret that the difficulties we have had managing this large guide have caused further problems. There have been a lot of plates to keep spinning. Please let me know if you have any further questions or concerns. Thanks, Jack [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_guides_table On 04/30/2013 05:36 PM, Jérôme Fenal wrote:Hi Jack, Thanks for the pointers and the explanation. Do you know why the Install Guide has not been cleared from Transifex after a backup? People are still translating the non disabled part of it, and having it rot having translated & disabled is not satisfying either. Do I need to file a BZ to get it removed entirely from Transifex? As people come and go on a regular basis, could we also think of having a regular newsletter which would remind to everybody such moves? Regards, J. 2013/4/30 Jack Reed <jreed@redhat.com <mailto:jreed@redhat.com>> Hi Jérôme, Great to hear that your team has targeted the Installation Guide in this way. The Installation Guide is actually translated on Zanata now, which is why you've encountered these issues in the Transifex project. I've also consolidated the Installation Quick Start Guide into the Installation Guide repo, so there are a list of files that would ideally be translated first so that the Quick Start Guide can be ready sooner. An explanation of this: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/trans/2013-February/010551.html And an explanation of the move to Zanata: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/docs/2012-July/014465.html And the project itself: https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/fedora-installation-guide Let me know if you have any more questions. Cheers, Jack On 04/26/2013 06:19 AM, Jérôme Fenal wrote:Hi there, The French team is considering making a special effort to advance French translation of the Fedora Installation Guide. We however have a number of issues which do not ease its translation : - 877 different resources visible in Transifex, of which - a lot are read-only and not accepting translations, - a lot are one-liners, or to be correct, one stringers. Could we please have a status about this guide (are there parts not to translate), and can we expect a cleanup of its setup in Transifex (major sections only, not more one-stringers)? Regards, -- Jérôme Fenal-- Jack Reed Content Author Engineering Content Services Red Hat Asia Pacific Brisbane, Australia Phone:+617 3514 8184 <tel:%2B617%203514%208184> -- docs mailing list docs@lists.fedoraproject.org <mailto:docs@lists.fedoraproject.org> To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/docs -- Jérôme Fenal -- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org <mailto:trans@lists.fedoraproject.org> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans-- Jack Reed Content Author Engineering Content Services Red Hat Asia Pacific Brisbane, Australia Phone:+617 3514 8184 <tel:%2B617%203514%208184> -- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org <mailto:trans@lists.fedoraproject.org> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans-- Jérôme Fenal
-- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
-- Jack Reed Content Author Engineering Content Services
Red Hat Asia Pacific Brisbane, Australia Phone: +617 3514 8184
-- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
In a nice twist, I've been able to salvage the Installation Guide translations made over the last couple of months in Transifex since missing files were uploaded as a test and erroneously left accessible.
It turns out that Zanata is capable of copying all useful translations from one version of a project to another. So the translations of strings still used in the Installation Guide are now safely in the f18 version of the guide's Zanata project.
Thanks to the Zanata team for their help with this, and I'm relieved that the translation work done over the last couple of months hasn't been in vain.
Cheers,
Jack
On 05/03/2013 11:43 AM, Jack Reed wrote:
Thanks for passing this on to the French team, Jérôme.
Unfortunately though, as I said, the pot files that were uploaded two months ago during the test were for f17, not f18, which I've confirmed by looking at certain strings. I understand that this means labour has been wasted, and I apologise for the oversight.
Not all pot files were updated for f18, of course, but I'm not aware of a way to distinguish them and then push the po files that are still current into Zanata. If anyone has an idea about this, which would enable us to re-use some of the stranded translations, please let us know.
I agree that more consistent notifications for trans-list would be valuable. I don't have enough knowledge of existing trans-list practices to know where improvements can be made, but I'll help any way I can. I've CC'd Pete Travis, the Fedora docs lead, so he can mull this over too.
Thanks,
Jack
On 05/02/2013 06:10 PM, Jérôme Fenal wrote:
Hi Jack,
No worries, I've indeed stopped people to translate the Install Guide on Transifex on trans-fr. I also need to compile all the .po and try to see if I can push them to Zanata (any API on Zanata?).
In order to fix the process in the mean time, I will organize a regular news/FAQ/roadmap mail on the trans-fr list.
Maybe we can plan to do so on the trans list as well, informing which new guides are coming (Defensive coding which appeared a bit out of the blue), which have been replaced (Deployment -> SAG/Storage), etc.
That would also be interesting in the light of F19 coming, for instance with pointers to the F19 schedule, with reminders of the work that will be coming (release notes, mandatory docs, etc.).
Regards,
J.
2013/5/1 Jack Reed <jreed@redhat.com mailto:jreed@redhat.com>
Hi Jérôme, and other translators who have worked on the Installation Guide lately, I was shocked to discover that there were so many files still accepting translation, because Alick Zhao and I blocked all the files in this project many months ago. But I've discovered the cause. 2 months ago, in an attempt to further troubleshoot the problems we had with the project on Transifex, a couple of us did test pushes to try and get all the files on to Transifex's servers. Previously - including at the point when Alick and I blocked the files - the project contained less than half of the files it was supposed to, which was one of the reasons we moved the project to Zanata. In working through that bug on github, the issue was resolved and we pushed all the files. However, because all work had moved to Zanata, I failed to consider that these newly added files needed to be blocked too. Although the Docs Project Guide Table [1] directs translators to Zanata for work on both installation guides, obviously experienced Fedora translators are going to check Transifex first. So when you found files that could be translated, you understandably proceeded. This is a consequence of, as you say, there not being a way to inform all translators, without fail, of such changes, or because I was not aware of how to do so. Because we want to leave the Transifex project open in the event that it is viable to return translation of the Installation Guide there, I will manually block the new files from accepting translations. However, if Dimitris or someone else knows a way to block access to the project entirely without deleting it, that would be the most future-proof method. I would also appreciate any suggestions of where else the move to Zanata should be publicised to help avoid confusion in future. I apologise to the translators who have worked on this project in Transifex since these new files were added. I had to push F17 files for testing purposes, so I'm sorry to say that your work will need to be redone in Zanata. I regret that the difficulties we have had managing this large guide have caused further problems. There have been a lot of plates to keep spinning. Please let me know if you have any further questions or concerns. Thanks, Jack [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_guides_table On 04/30/2013 05:36 PM, Jérôme Fenal wrote:Hi Jack, Thanks for the pointers and the explanation. Do you know why the Install Guide has not been cleared from Transifex after a backup? People are still translating the non disabled part of it, and having it rot having translated & disabled is not satisfying either. Do I need to file a BZ to get it removed entirely from Transifex? As people come and go on a regular basis, could we also think of having a regular newsletter which would remind to everybody such moves? Regards, J. 2013/4/30 Jack Reed <jreed@redhat.com <mailto:jreed@redhat.com>> Hi Jérôme, Great to hear that your team has targeted the Installation Guide in this way. The Installation Guide is actually translated on Zanata now, which is why you've encountered these issues in the Transifex project. I've also consolidated the Installation Quick Start Guide into the Installation Guide repo, so there are a list of files that would ideally be translated first so that the Quick Start Guide can be ready sooner. An explanation of this: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/trans/2013-February/010551.html And an explanation of the move to Zanata: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/docs/2012-July/014465.html And the project itself: https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/fedora-installation-guide Let me know if you have any more questions. Cheers, Jack On 04/26/2013 06:19 AM, Jérôme Fenal wrote:Hi there, The French team is considering making a special effort to advance French translation of the Fedora Installation Guide. We however have a number of issues which do not ease its translation : - 877 different resources visible in Transifex, of which - a lot are read-only and not accepting translations, - a lot are one-liners, or to be correct, one stringers. Could we please have a status about this guide (are there parts not to translate), and can we expect a cleanup of its setup in Transifex (major sections only, not more one-stringers)? Regards, -- Jérôme Fenal-- Jack Reed Content Author Engineering Content Services Red Hat Asia Pacific Brisbane, Australia Phone:+617 3514 8184 <tel:%2B617%203514%208184> -- docs mailing list docs@lists.fedoraproject.org <mailto:docs@lists.fedoraproject.org> To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/docs -- Jérôme Fenal -- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org <mailto:trans@lists.fedoraproject.org> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans-- Jack Reed Content Author Engineering Content Services Red Hat Asia Pacific Brisbane, Australia Phone:+617 3514 8184 <tel:%2B617%203514%208184> -- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org <mailto:trans@lists.fedoraproject.org> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans-- Jérôme Fenal
-- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
-- Jack Reed Content Author Engineering Content Services
Red Hat Asia Pacific Brisbane, Australia Phone: +617 3514 8184
-- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
2013/5/17 Jack Reed jreed@redhat.com:
In a nice twist, I've been able to salvage the Installation Guide translations made over the last couple of months in Transifex since missing files were uploaded as a test and erroneously left accessible.
It turns out that Zanata is capable of copying all useful translations from one version of a project to another. So the translations of strings still used in the Installation Guide are now safely in the f18 version of the guide's Zanata project.
Thanks to the Zanata team for their help with this, and I'm relieved that the translation work done over the last couple of months hasn't been in vain.
Hi Jack,
That is excellent news, thanks for working on this and not loosing work by our contributing translators.
Regards,
Jérôme
-
Dimitris Glezos -
Jack Reed -
Jérôme Fenal