Fedora 27, due out October 2017, will not have an Alpha release. We're adjusting the schedule around that, and there are some questions as to where the put the translations deadlines. Traditionally, String Freeze is defined as "Same day as Alpha Freeze", so obviously that's no longer useful.
Take a look at the schedule as it stands now: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/27/Schedule
Right now, we the string freeze about a month before the beta freeze (basically, in the same timeframe). This, however, includes putting the string freeze before Bodhi Activation (which also used to happen at Alpha) and even before the branch from Rawhide. This seems less than ideal.
On the other hand, the Translation Deadline is usually a bit before the Beta freeze. If we keep that _and_ move the String Freeze up to the branch, that leaves only a week to do translations. If we move the String Freeze up to the Bodhi Activation point, that puts it *after* the Translation Deadline, which obviously makes no sense.
In this new model, were *should* these deadlines fit? Is it reasonable to put the Software String Freeze the day of the branch (2017-08-16) and the Translation Deadline at the Beta Freeze (2017-09-05), or is that too late? What about putting the Software String Freeze at branch, and Translation Deadline just two weeks later at Bodhi Activation (2017-08-29)?
Thanks!
Le 17 mars 2017 18:56:08 UTC+01:00, Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org a écrit :
Fedora 27, due out October 2017, will not have an Alpha release. We're adjusting the schedule around that, and there are some questions as to where the put the translations deadlines. Traditionally, String Freeze is defined as "Same day as Alpha Freeze", so obviously that's no longer useful.
Take a look at the schedule as it stands now: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/27/Schedule
Right now, we the string freeze about a month before the beta freeze (basically, in the same timeframe). This, however, includes putting the string freeze before Bodhi Activation (which also used to happen at Alpha) and even before the branch from Rawhide. This seems less than ideal.
On the other hand, the Translation Deadline is usually a bit before the Beta freeze. If we keep that _and_ move the String Freeze up to the branch, that leaves only a week to do translations. If we move the String Freeze up to the Bodhi Activation point, that puts it *after* the Translation Deadline, which obviously makes no sense.
In this new model, were *should* these deadlines fit? Is it reasonable to put the Software String Freeze the day of the branch (2017-08-16) and the Translation Deadline at the Beta Freeze (2017-09-05), or is that too late? What about putting the Software String Freeze at branch, and Translation Deadline just two weeks later at Bodhi Activation (2017-08-29)?
Thanks!
-- Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org Fedora Project Leader _______________________________________________ trans mailing list -- trans@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to trans-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
Hello Matthew,
I am not sure this deadline is used anymore. As far as I know, doc and website don't follow it, neither main projects who have their own update policies related to alpha/beta freeze (dnf, anaconda, etc.). I'm here since 2015, I don't know much about history of translation in Fedora, but I noticed many string updates after freezes.
I am not sure a string freeze is the right way to include translation for packages in a distribution. In the meanwhile, it should be respected for Fedora content (doc, websites, etc.).
A better way to handle this would be to monitor if translated content is indeed pushed to enduser, with bug filing if needed. I'm afraid we can't actually get this information, at the moment, even have a hint about translation activity requires admin extraction.
We will discuss it in Monday's evening meeting and will come back to you.
Hi,
on the last FLOCK I had a short discussion with Noriko about these deadlines and my understanding was, that these deadlines are not strictly used however it is fine to have these in schedule for informative purpose. If the Translation team is willing to discuss it on the meeting and come up with some proposal, how to organize the work and define some milestones around it, it will be helpful.
Regards, Jan
On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 10:48 PM, Jean-Baptiste Holcroft jean-baptiste@holcroft.fr wrote:
Le 17 mars 2017 18:56:08 UTC+01:00, Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org a écrit :
Fedora 27, due out October 2017, will not have an Alpha release. We're adjusting the schedule around that, and there are some questions as to where the put the translations deadlines. Traditionally, String Freeze is defined as "Same day as Alpha Freeze", so obviously that's no longer useful.
Take a look at the schedule as it stands now: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/27/Schedule
Right now, we the string freeze about a month before the beta freeze (basically, in the same timeframe). This, however, includes putting the string freeze before Bodhi Activation (which also used to happen at Alpha) and even before the branch from Rawhide. This seems less than ideal.
On the other hand, the Translation Deadline is usually a bit before the Beta freeze. If we keep that _and_ move the String Freeze up to the branch, that leaves only a week to do translations. If we move the String Freeze up to the Bodhi Activation point, that puts it *after* the Translation Deadline, which obviously makes no sense.
In this new model, were *should* these deadlines fit? Is it reasonable to put the Software String Freeze the day of the branch (2017-08-16) and the Translation Deadline at the Beta Freeze (2017-09-05), or is that too late? What about putting the Software String Freeze at branch, and Translation Deadline just two weeks later at Bodhi Activation (2017-08-29)?
Thanks!
-- Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org Fedora Project Leader _______________________________________________ trans mailing list -- trans@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to trans-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
Hello Matthew,
I am not sure this deadline is used anymore. As far as I know, doc and website don't follow it, neither main projects who have their own update policies related to alpha/beta freeze (dnf, anaconda, etc.). I'm here since 2015, I don't know much about history of translation in Fedora, but I noticed many string updates after freezes.
I am not sure a string freeze is the right way to include translation for packages in a distribution. In the meanwhile, it should be respected for Fedora content (doc, websites, etc.).
A better way to handle this would be to monitor if translated content is indeed pushed to enduser, with bug filing if needed. I'm afraid we can't actually get this information, at the moment, even have a hint about translation activity requires admin extraction.
We will discuss it in Monday's evening meeting and will come back to you.
Jean-Baptiste Holcroft _______________________________________________ trans mailing list -- trans@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to trans-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
2017-03-19 22:48 GMT+01:00 Jean-Baptiste Holcroft <jean-baptiste@holcroft.fr
:
Le 17 mars 2017 18:56:08 UTC+01:00, Matthew Miller < mattdm@fedoraproject.org> a écrit :
Fedora 27, due out October 2017, will not have an Alpha release. We're adjusting the schedule around that, and there are some questions as to where the put the translations deadlines. Traditionally, String Freeze is defined as "Same day as Alpha Freeze", so obviously that's no longer useful.
Take a look at the schedule as it stands now: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/27/Schedule
Right now, we the string freeze about a month before the beta freeze (basically, in the same timeframe). This, however, includes putting the string freeze before Bodhi Activation (which also used to happen at Alpha) and even before the branch from Rawhide. This seems less than ideal.
On the other hand, the Translation Deadline is usually a bit before the Beta freeze. If we keep that _and_ move the String Freeze up to the branch, that leaves only a week to do translations. If we move the String Freeze up to the Bodhi Activation point, that puts it *after* the Translation Deadline, which obviously makes no sense.
In this new model, were *should* these deadlines fit? Is it reasonable to put the Software String Freeze the day of the branch (2017-08-16) and the Translation Deadline at the Beta Freeze (2017-09-05), or is that too late? What about putting the Software String Freeze at branch, and Translation Deadline just two weeks later at Bodhi Activation (2017-08-29)?
Thanks!
-- Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org Fedora Project Leader _______________________________________________ trans mailing list -- trans@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to trans-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
Hello Matthew,
I am not sure this deadline is used anymore. As far as I know, doc and website don't follow it, neither main projects who have their own update policies related to alpha/beta freeze (dnf, anaconda, etc.). I'm here since 2015, I don't know much about history of translation in Fedora, but I noticed many string updates after freezes.
I am not sure a string freeze is the right way to include translation for packages in a distribution. In the meanwhile, it should be respected for Fedora content (doc, websites, etc.).
A better way to handle this would be to monitor if translated content is indeed pushed to enduser, with bug filing if needed. I'm afraid we can't actually get this information, at the moment, even have a hint about translation activity requires admin extraction.
We will discuss it in Monday's evening meeting and will come back to you.
Jean-Baptiste Holcroft
FWIW websites always applied their own policies and needs, as there is not a real need to freeze translations, except for websites needs. The translation process on the websites normally is rolling and can be done at any moment, as we pull translations regularly and are able to get in the latest strings at any time. Differently it will work for software strings IMO; for applications, which have their own freeze, it is necessary to set a translation deadline before that happens, in order to be sure to have the strings translated in time. My two cents for the websites POV. Regards.
Le 20/03/2017 à 12:59, Robert Mayr a écrit :
2017-03-19 22:48 GMT+01:00 Jean-Baptiste Holcroft <jean-baptiste@holcroft.fr mailto:jean-baptiste@holcroft.fr>:
FWIW websites always applied their own policies and needs, as there is not a real need to freeze translations, except for websites needs. The translation process on the websites normally is rolling and can be done at any moment, as we pull translations regularly and are able to get in the latest strings at any time.
You're right to point out the specific way Website handle translation, because your publication process is really comfortable for us. It's a continuous publication process. I hope we'll have the same for documentation.
In the same time, knowing they won't be any more changes after a specific date is useful, so we can focus and prevent "bad surprises" when release is done. It would be a bonus for coordination and communication. Even the tiniest modification means at least a dozen of translators (we had 17 languages with >80% last September, we have 13 today).
To the websites I think we have the best solution - because we know it forward what is gonna be implemented, and we can focus on it. For apps translations currently we don't have preferred/priority list in Zanata, only a project list that is based on alphabet order. It would be easier for everybody, to know the "will be included surely", "optional", or "extras" or mark them somehow within Zanata. Also would be a great aid to have/access/generate only a summarized list based on the translator language with percentages. Similar happens in the case of websites, where Robyduck tells to us witch has priority, and really matters in users experience. After this - I think we can concentrate on apps and parts that we provide within the distro, and those parts that our users are will surely meet after the first boot or everyday usage.
Z
2017-03-20 13:33 GMT+01:00 Jean-Baptiste jean-baptiste@holcroft.fr:
Le 20/03/2017 à 12:59, Robert Mayr a écrit :
2017-03-19 22:48 GMT+01:00 Jean-Baptiste Holcroft <jean-baptiste@holcroft.fr mailto:jean-baptiste@holcroft.fr>:
FWIW websites always applied their own policies and needs, as there is not a real need to freeze translations, except for websites needs. The translation process on the websites normally is rolling and can be done at any moment, as we pull translations regularly and are able to get in the latest strings at any time.
You're right to point out the specific way Website handle translation, because your publication process is really comfortable for us. It's a continuous publication process. I hope we'll have the same for documentation.
In the same time, knowing they won't be any more changes after a specific date is useful, so we can focus and prevent "bad surprises" when release is done. It would be a bonus for coordination and communication. Even the tiniest modification means at least a dozen of translators (we had 17 languages with >80% last September, we have 13 today).
-- Jean-Baptiste Holcroft _______________________________________________ trans mailing list -- trans@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to trans-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
On 17 March 2017 at 23:26, Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org wrote:
In this new model, were *should* these deadlines fit? Is it reasonable to put the Software String Freeze the day of the branch (2017-08-16) and the Translation Deadline at the Beta Freeze (2017-09-05), or is that too late? What about putting the Software String Freeze at branch, and Translation Deadline just two weeks later at Bodhi Activation (2017-08-29)?
Coming over this bit late :( First of all 4month release cycle is very impressive. 👍
As Jan Kurik mentioned, we have remained very flexible for these milestone in Fedora but these are important milestone and make sure Fedora provide better localization experience.
I think the present allocated dates look good for String Freeze ( 2017-08-01) . [1]
It will be good to have around 4 weeks gap between String Freeze and Translation deadlines. So having Translation deadline with " Bodhi activation point" make sense. Proposing *Translation Deadline ( 2017-08-29)*, Its important to have Translation Deadline prior Beta Freeze, so one can test translation status in Beta release itself.
Thanks, Pravin Satpute
On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 2:25 PM, pravin.d.s@gmail.com pravin.d.s@gmail.com wrote:
On 17 March 2017 at 23:26, Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org wrote:
In this new model, were *should* these deadlines fit? Is it reasonable to put the Software String Freeze the day of the branch (2017-08-16) and the Translation Deadline at the Beta Freeze (2017-09-05), or is that too late? What about putting the Software String Freeze at branch, and Translation Deadline just two weeks later at Bodhi Activation (2017-08-29)?
Coming over this bit late :( First of all 4month release cycle is very impressive. 👍
As Jan Kurik mentioned, we have remained very flexible for these milestone in Fedora but these are important milestone and make sure Fedora provide better localization experience.
I think the present allocated dates look good for String Freeze ( 2017-08-01) . [1]
It will be good to have around 4 weeks gap between String Freeze and Translation deadlines. So having Translation deadline with " Bodhi activation point" make sense. Proposing *Translation Deadline ( 2017-08-29)*, Its important to have Translation Deadline prior Beta Freeze, so one can test translation status in Beta release itself.
Thanks Pravin for your answer. I have modified the Schedule as you requested (Translation deadline moved to the same date as Bodhi activation point).
Regards, Jan
Thanks, Pravin Satpute
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