My dear fellows,
Probably you're familiar with the famous phrase 'The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog'. As a pangram[1] it seems to be a standard typeface sample in any font viewer or configuration tool on any OS or DE. I'm fine with its popularity. What always confuses me is that it always remains the English form, never localized. I searched online, but the seemingly all-known Internet failed to provide an reasonable answer. Until recently I pick up the localization of fonts-tweak-tool, which is a new font configuration tool formally introduced in coming Fedora 18[2], this question haunted in my mind so hard that I have to ask here.
Since the main purpose of pangram in font viewer is about the typefaces of characters, it wouldn't be much useful if literally translating 'quick brown fox' into another language. The ideal way I can think is to find a pangram native to the target language. For example, if I were using gnome-font-viewer to open a Chinese font(it seems that the metadata of a font can tell what language this font is intended for, but I'm not 100% sure), my concern is on how this font looks on Chinese characters. The 'quick brown fox' only showing 26 alphabetical English characters just won't do. A Chinese pangram, if exists, will provide more in this case. However, in practice, there's a need to know how the 26 English alphabets look even in a non-English font. So displaying the English and the localized pangrams side by side would be more suitable.
All right. To put it simple, do you think it would be more helpful if: a). for English font, display the "quick brown fox" pangram as sample. b). for non-English font, display the "quick brown fox" AND the pangram native to the language specified by the font metadata as samples.
Obviously it requires both effort from developers and translators to make it happen. I'm not sure if there's any technical difficulty in fonts-tweak-tool thus CCed the main developer Akira. Also I'm writing to you the translators of Fedora Project to seek your opinions and expertise.
PS: There are quite a number of pangrams in numerous languages listed on Wikipedia[3].
Regards, Tommy He
[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangram [2]https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/18/html/Release_Notes/sect-Relea... [3]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pangrams
Thu, 27 Dec 2012 09:36:34 +0200 було написано Tommy He lovenemesis@fedoraproject.org:
My dear fellows,
Probably you're familiar with the famous phrase 'The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog'. As a pangram[1] it seems to be a standard typeface sample in any font viewer or configuration tool on any OS or DE. I'm fine with its popularity. What always confuses me is that it always remains the English form, never localized. I searched online, but the seemingly all-known Internet failed to provide an reasonable answer. Until recently I pick up the localization of fonts-tweak-tool, which is a new font configuration tool formally introduced in coming Fedora 18[2], this question haunted in my mind so hard that I have to ask here.
Since the main purpose of pangram in font viewer is about the typefaces of characters, it wouldn't be much useful if literally translating 'quick brown fox' into another language. The ideal way I can think is to find a pangram native to the target language. For example, if I were using gnome-font-viewer to open a Chinese font(it seems that the metadata of a font can tell what language this font is intended for, but I'm not 100% sure), my concern is on how this font looks on Chinese characters. The 'quick brown fox' only showing 26 alphabetical English characters just won't do. A Chinese pangram, if exists, will provide more in this case. However, in practice, there's a need to know how the 26 English alphabets look even in a non-English font. So displaying the English and the localized pangrams side by side would be more suitable.
All right. To put it simple, do you think it would be more helpful if: a). for English font, display the "quick brown fox" pangram as sample. b). for non-English font, display the "quick brown fox" AND the pangram native to the language specified by the font metadata as samples.
Obviously it requires both effort from developers and translators to make it happen. I'm not sure if there's any technical difficulty in fonts-tweak-tool thus CCed the main developer Akira. Also I'm writing to you the translators of Fedora Project to seek your opinions and expertise.
PS: There are quite a number of pangrams in numerous languages listed on Wikipedia[3].
Regards, Tommy He
[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangram [2]https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/18/html/Release_Notes/sect-Relea... [3]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pangrams
Hi,
I think that pangrams in a user context are only useful if they show the native characters. Combined representation can be helpful if localization is incomplete and there are not too many fonts without basic Latin after all.
Do not know about Gtk-desktops, but in KDE pangrams were always translatable (including Traditional Chinese):
http://l10n.kde.org/dictionary/search-translations.php?package=kde-workspace...
Just my 2 cents.
Best regards, Yuri, Ukrainian translator
2012/12/27 Tommy He lovenemesis@fedoraproject.org:
My dear fellows,
Probably you're familiar with the famous phrase 'The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog'. As a pangram[1] it seems to be a standard typeface sample in any font viewer or configuration tool on any OS or DE. I'm fine with its popularity. What always confuses me is that it always remains the English form, never localized. I searched online, but the seemingly all-known Internet failed to provide an reasonable answer. Until recently I pick up the localization of fonts-tweak-tool, which is a new font configuration tool formally introduced in coming Fedora 18[2], this question haunted in my mind so hard that I have to ask here.
Since the main purpose of pangram in font viewer is about the typefaces of characters, it wouldn't be much useful if literally translating 'quick brown fox' into another language. The ideal way I can think is to find a pangram native to the target language. For example, if I were using gnome-font-viewer to open a Chinese font(it seems that the metadata of a font can tell what language this font is intended for, but I'm not 100% sure), my concern is on how this font looks on Chinese characters. The 'quick brown fox' only showing 26 alphabetical English characters just won't do. A Chinese pangram, if exists, will provide more in this case. However, in practice, there's a need to know how the 26 English alphabets look even in a non-English font. So displaying the English and the localized pangrams side by side would be more suitable.
All right. To put it simple, do you think it would be more helpful if: a). for English font, display the "quick brown fox" pangram as sample. b). for non-English font, display the "quick brown fox" AND the pangram native to the language specified by the font metadata as samples.
Obviously it requires both effort from developers and translators to make it happen. I'm not sure if there's any technical difficulty in fonts-tweak-tool thus CCed the main developer Akira. Also I'm writing to you the translators of Fedora Project to seek your opinions and expertise.
PS: There are quite a number of pangrams in numerous languages listed on Wikipedia[3].
As a matter of fact GTK+/GNOME stack (in the Pango library [1]) has a list of pangrams and a function to display it in user's native language. I've seen it used e.g. in gnome-font-viewer and sushi. Is fonts-tweak-tool based on GTK+? If so, it can easily use pango_language_get_sample_string() API.
[1] http://git.gnome.org/browse/pango/tree/pango/pango-language-sample-table.h
-- Piotr Drąg http://raven.fedorapeople.org/
On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 11:16 PM, Piotr Drąg piotrdrag@gmail.com wrote:
2012/12/27 Tommy He lovenemesis@fedoraproject.org:
My dear fellows,
Probably you're familiar with the famous phrase 'The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog'. As a pangram[1] it seems to be a standard typeface sample in any font viewer or configuration tool on any OS or DE. I'm fine with its popularity. What always confuses me is that it always remains the English form, never localized. I searched online, but the seemingly all-known Internet failed to provide an reasonable answer. Until recently I pick up the localization of fonts-tweak-tool, which is a new font configuration tool formally introduced in coming Fedora 18[2], this question haunted in my mind so hard that I have to ask here.
Since the main purpose of pangram in font viewer is about the typefaces of characters, it wouldn't be much useful if literally translating 'quick brown fox' into another language. The ideal way I can think is to find a pangram native to the target language. For example, if I were using gnome-font-viewer to open a Chinese font(it seems that the metadata of a font can tell what language this font is intended for, but I'm not 100% sure), my concern is on how this font looks on Chinese characters. The 'quick brown fox' only showing 26 alphabetical English characters just won't do. A Chinese pangram, if exists, will provide more in this case. However, in practice, there's a need to know how the 26 English alphabets look even in a non-English font. So displaying the English and the localized pangrams side by side would be more suitable.
All right. To put it simple, do you think it would be more helpful if: a). for English font, display the "quick brown fox" pangram as sample. b). for non-English font, display the "quick brown fox" AND the pangram native to the language specified by the font metadata as samples.
Obviously it requires both effort from developers and translators to make it happen. I'm not sure if there's any technical difficulty in fonts-tweak-tool thus CCed the main developer Akira. Also I'm writing to you the translators of Fedora Project to seek your opinions and expertise.
PS: There are quite a number of pangrams in numerous languages listed on Wikipedia[3].
As a matter of fact GTK+/GNOME stack (in the Pango library [1]) has a list of pangrams and a function to display it in user's native language. I've seen it used e.g. in gnome-font-viewer and sushi. Is fonts-tweak-tool based on GTK+? If so, it can easily use pango_language_get_sample_string() API.
[1] http://git.gnome.org/browse/pango/tree/pango/pango-language-sample-table.h
fonts-tweak-tool seems to base on PyGTK+. Hope it wouldn't be a issue to utilize pango_language_get_sample_string() API. Still, it's a question better to be answered by Akira :)
Thanks, Tommy
-- Piotr Drąg http://raven.fedorapeople.org/ -- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 16:16:33 +0100, "PD" == Piotr Drąg piotrdrag@gmail.com wrote:
PD> As a matter of fact GTK+/GNOME stack (in the Pango library [1]) has a PD> list of pangrams and a function to display it in user's native PD> language. I've seen it used e.g. in gnome-font-viewer and sushi. Is PD> fonts-tweak-tool based on GTK+? If so, it can easily use PD> pango_language_get_sample_string() API.
PD> [1] http://git.gnome.org/browse/pango/tree/pango/pango-language-sample-table.h
That sounds reasonable. fixed in git.
Thanks, -- Akira TAGOH
Thanks a lot for this quick action. :)
Tommy
On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Akira TAGOH tagoh@redhat.com wrote:
On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 16:16:33 +0100, "PD" == Piotr Drąg piotrdrag@gmail.com wrote:
PD> As a matter of fact GTK+/GNOME stack (in the Pango library [1]) has a PD> list of pangrams and a function to display it in user's native PD> language. I've seen it used e.g. in gnome-font-viewer and sushi. Is PD> fonts-tweak-tool based on GTK+? If so, it can easily use PD> pango_language_get_sample_string() API.
PD> [1] http://git.gnome.org/browse/pango/tree/pango/pango-language-sample-table.h
That sounds reasonable. fixed in git.
Thanks,
Akira TAGOH
-- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans