Hi all,
I'm proud to announce that the FUEL project is now available for translation through Zanata!
You can find the Desktop, Mobile and Web versions here:
https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/fuel-project
Let me know if you have any questions or issues.
Thanks,
Isaac
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 8:03 AM, Isaac Rooskov irooskov@redhat.com wrote:
I'm proud to announce that the FUEL project is now available for translation through Zanata!
You can find the Desktop, Mobile and Web versions here:
https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/fuel-project
Let me know if you have any questions or issues.
Wasn't this previously/currently hosted on Translatewiki.net?
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 11:11 AM, sankarshan foss.mailinglists@gmail.comwrote:
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 8:03 AM, Isaac Rooskov irooskov@redhat.com wrote:
I'm proud to announce that the FUEL project is now available for
translation
through Zanata!
You can find the Desktop, Mobile and Web versions here:
https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/fuel-project
Let me know if you have any questions or issues.
Wasn't this previously/currently hosted on Translatewiki.net?
https://lists.fedorahosted.org/pipermail/fuel-discuss/2013-February/000420.h...
We decided that for the pre-evaluation stage, we need more suggestions and contributions from different translation communities and so the move is towards that direction.
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Rajesh Ranjan rajesh672@gmail.com wrote:
https://lists.fedorahosted.org/pipermail/fuel-discuss/2013-February/000420.h...
We decided that for the pre-evaluation stage, we need more suggestions and contributions from different translation communities and so the move is towards that direction.
If you could point out in the email you cited, a discussion that a switch-over and a date for that was imminent, it would be helpful. I can probably understand the motivation (for what it is worth, I couldn't even figure out why you went TWN in the first place), but if you didn't put up a switch-over window, you are probably being a bit more arbitrary than most projects usually are.
On 08/26/2013 11:46 AM, sankarshan wrote:
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Rajesh Ranjan rajesh672@gmail.com wrote:
https://lists.fedorahosted.org/pipermail/fuel-discuss/2013-February/000420.h...
We decided that for the pre-evaluation stage, we need more suggestions and contributions from different translation communities and so the move is towards that direction.
If you could point out in the email you cited, a discussion that a switch-over and a date for that was imminent, it would be helpful. I can probably understand the motivation (for what it is worth, I couldn't even figure out why you went TWN in the first place), but if you didn't put up a switch-over window, you are probably being a bit more arbitrary than most projects usually are.
Apart from the link[1] Rajesh has provided, we had a discussion[2][3] on fuel-discuss mailing list about (under a different discussion thread though) whether TWN is the sole place to submit translations for FUEL modules/terminologies! Let me just confirm once again that TWN is not the *sole* place for anyone to contribute to FUEL modules. FUEL Project receives contributions from TWN localization community.
Zanata[4] is another place from where FUEL Project will receive terminology translations with the help of Fedora Localization Community registered on Zanata.
FUEL Project will continue receiving terminology translations from different communities in order to have better quality translations that will help us evaluate terms better and serve the standard terminologies.
Thanks,
[1] https://lists.fedorahosted.org/pipermail/fuel-discuss/2013-February/000420.h... [2] https://lists.fedorahosted.org/pipermail/fuel-discuss/2013-March/000456.html [3] https://lists.fedorahosted.org/pipermail/fuel-discuss/2013-March/000459.html [4] https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/fuel-project
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:13 PM, Ankit Patel ankit@redhat.com wrote:
Let me just confirm once again that TWN is not the *sole* place for anyone to contribute to FUEL modules. FUEL Project receives contributions from TWN localization community.
Zanata[4] is another place from where FUEL Project will receive terminology translations with the help of Fedora Localization Community registered on Zanata.
Perhaps you'd consider amending the announcement about FUEL being on Zanata to indicate that it is yet another place where contributions can be received. On that note, what is the plan to handle locales common on both systems?
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:32 PM, sankarshan foss.mailinglists@gmail.comwrote:
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:13 PM, Ankit Patel ankit@redhat.com wrote:
Let me just confirm once again that TWN is not the *sole* place for anyone to contribute to FUEL modules. FUEL Project receives contributions from TWN localization community.
Zanata[4] is another place from where FUEL Project will receive terminology translations with the help of Fedora Localization Community registered on Zanata.
Perhaps you'd consider amending the announcement about FUEL being on Zanata to indicate that it is yet another place where contributions can be received. On that note, what is the plan to handle locales common on both systems?
Everything on fuel.git [1] is under development branch. There is not any chance of conflict. For a locale, we can have multiple contributions from different individual communities and persons working for the terminology development. If we take the example, for Hindi Mobile Module [2], we already have two contributions till now. But TWN as well as Zanata community can push the translation till the date we are not going for the evaluation of the mobile module for Hindi language. So assume, if both TWN and Zanata contributions are pushed in fuel.git, then we will have four versions of translations for fuel-mobile module in Hindi language. And it would be easier during the evaluation meet to decide from different choices and the working community can choose the best after discussion. After the evaluation meet, we will stop receiving the contribution for the fuel-module-lang in which evaluation successfully completed.
hth.
[1]. https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/fuel.git/ [2]. https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/fuel.git/tree/language/hi/terminology/mobi...
A number of similar projects are using the Transifex editor for similar effort. There are built-in suggestions from the users for each translation, discussions with @mentions for notifications and simple issue tracking. There's also a glossary too to help out with common terms.
http://blog.transifex.com/post/53238746878/a-more-collaborative-translation-... http://cl.ly/image/3N383x3m2y1D
Hope this helps.
-d
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:31 AM, Rajesh Ranjan rajesh672@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:32 PM, sankarshan foss.mailinglists@gmail.comwrote:
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:13 PM, Ankit Patel ankit@redhat.com wrote:
Let me just confirm once again that TWN is not the *sole* place for anyone to contribute to FUEL modules. FUEL Project receives contributions from TWN localization community.
Zanata[4] is another place from where FUEL Project will receive terminology translations with the help of Fedora Localization Community registered on Zanata.
Perhaps you'd consider amending the announcement about FUEL being on Zanata to indicate that it is yet another place where contributions can be received. On that note, what is the plan to handle locales common on both systems?
Everything on fuel.git [1] is under development branch. There is not any chance of conflict. For a locale, we can have multiple contributions from different individual communities and persons working for the terminology development. If we take the example, for Hindi Mobile Module [2], we already have two contributions till now. But TWN as well as Zanata community can push the translation till the date we are not going for the evaluation of the mobile module for Hindi language. So assume, if both TWN and Zanata contributions are pushed in fuel.git, then we will have four versions of translations for fuel-mobile module in Hindi language. And it would be easier during the evaluation meet to decide from different choices and the working community can choose the best after discussion. After the evaluation meet, we will stop receiving the contribution for the fuel-module-lang in which evaluation successfully completed.
hth.
[1]. https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/fuel.git/ [2]. https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/fuel.git/tree/language/hi/terminology/mobi...
-- Regards, Rajesh Ranjan
*FUEL GILT Conference 2013* http://fuelproject.org/gilt2013/index
-- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
Thanks for the info Dimitris! :)
Zanata also has suggestions, glossary, tracking and more :D We have some exciting stuff coming up so stay tuned :D
Thanks,
Isaac
On 08/26/2013 09:31 PM, Dimitris Glezos wrote:
A number of similar projects are using the Transifex editor for similar effort. There are built-in suggestions from the users for each translation, discussions with @mentions for notifications and simple issue tracking. There's also a glossary too to help out with common terms.
http://blog.transifex.com/post/53238746878/a-more-collaborative-translation-... http://cl.ly/image/3N383x3m2y1D
Hope this helps.
-d
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:31 AM, Rajesh Ranjan <rajesh672@gmail.com mailto:rajesh672@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:32 PM, sankarshan <foss.mailinglists@gmail.com <mailto:foss.mailinglists@gmail.com>> wrote: On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:13 PM, Ankit Patel <ankit@redhat.com <mailto:ankit@redhat.com>> wrote: > Let me just confirm once again that TWN is not > the *sole* place for anyone to contribute to FUEL modules. FUEL Project > receives contributions from TWN localization community. > > Zanata[4] is another place from where FUEL Project will receive > terminology translations with the help of Fedora Localization Community > registered on Zanata. Perhaps you'd consider amending the announcement about FUEL being on Zanata to indicate that it is yet another place where contributions can be received. On that note, what is the plan to handle locales common on both systems? Everything on fuel.git [1] is under development branch. There is not any chance of conflict. For a locale, we can have multiple contributions from different individual communities and persons working for the terminology development. If we take the example, for Hindi Mobile Module [2], we already have two contributions till now. But TWN as well as Zanata community can push the translation till the date we are not going for the evaluation of the mobile module for Hindi language. So assume, if both TWN and Zanata contributions are pushed in fuel.git, then we will have four versions of translations for fuel-mobile module in Hindi language. And it would be easier during the evaluation meet to decide from different choices and the working community can choose the best after discussion. After the evaluation meet, we will stop receiving the contribution for the fuel-module-lang in which evaluation successfully completed. hth. [1]. https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/fuel.git/ [2]. https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/fuel.git/tree/language/hi/terminology/mobile -- Regards, Rajesh Ranjan *FUEL GILT Conference 2013* http://fuelproject.org/gilt2013/index -- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org <mailto:trans@lists.fedoraproject.org> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans-- Dimitris Glezos Founder & CEO, Transifex https://www.transifex.com/
-- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 4:20 PM, Isaac Rooskov irooskov@redhat.com wrote:
Zanata also has suggestions, glossary, tracking and more :D We have some exciting stuff coming up so stay tuned :D
Good to know Isaac.
The question was actually for Rajesh and FUEL's decision to host the files in git.
-d
On 08/26/2013 09:31 PM, Dimitris Glezos wrote:
A number of similar projects are using the Transifex editor for similar effort. There are built-in suggestions from the users for each translation, discussions with @mentions for notifications and simple issue tracking. There's also a glossary too to help out with common terms.
http://blog.transifex.com/post/53238746878/a-more-collaborative-translation-... http://cl.ly/image/3N383x3m2y1D
Hope this helps.
-d
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:31 AM, Rajesh Ranjan rajesh672@gmail.comwrote:
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:32 PM, sankarshan <foss.mailinglists@gmail.com
wrote:
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:13 PM, Ankit Patel ankit@redhat.com wrote:
Let me just confirm once again that TWN is not the *sole* place for anyone to contribute to FUEL modules. FUEL Project receives contributions from TWN localization community.
Zanata[4] is another place from where FUEL Project will receive terminology translations with the help of Fedora Localization Community registered on Zanata.
Perhaps you'd consider amending the announcement about FUEL being on Zanata to indicate that it is yet another place where contributions can be received. On that note, what is the plan to handle locales common on both systems?
Everything on fuel.git [1] is under development branch. There is not any chance of conflict. For a locale, we can have multiple contributions from different individual communities and persons working for the terminology development. If we take the example, for Hindi Mobile Module [2], we already have two contributions till now. But TWN as well as Zanata community can push the translation till the date we are not going for the evaluation of the mobile module for Hindi language. So assume, if both TWN and Zanata contributions are pushed in fuel.git, then we will have four versions of translations for fuel-mobile module in Hindi language. And it would be easier during the evaluation meet to decide from different choices and the working community can choose the best after discussion. After the evaluation meet, we will stop receiving the contribution for the fuel-module-lang in which evaluation successfully completed.
hth.
[1]. https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/fuel.git/ [2]. https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/fuel.git/tree/language/hi/terminology/mobi...
-- Regards, Rajesh Ranjan
*FUEL GILT Conference 2013* http://fuelproject.org/gilt2013/index
-- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
-- Dimitris Glezos Founder & CEO, Transifex https://www.transifex.com/
-- trans mailing listtrans@lists.fedoraproject.orghttps://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
-- Isaac Rooskov Supervisor, Localization Services Product Manager, Zanata Red Hat
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Rajesh Ranjan rajesh672@gmail.com wrote:
But TWN as well as Zanata community can push the translation till the date we are not going for the evaluation of the mobile module for Hindi language. So assume, if both TWN and Zanata contributions are pushed in fuel.git, then we will have four versions of translations for fuel-mobile module in Hindi language. And it would be easier during the evaluation meet to decide from different choices and the working community can choose the best after discussion.
As FUEL upstream, I am sure that you know better. What I did found odd were:
- an announcement that did not explain about the "additional location" concept - a plan that was not clearly articulated on the list for the upstream project - a method that has an eerie resemblance with Mozilla and its multiple entry points to translation for the same locale/language
The "Mozilla method" had the seeds of forming splinter communities of contributors instead of the tools providing an unified platform. That was the scary downside.
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 5:46 PM, sankarshan foss.mailinglists@gmail.comwrote:
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Rajesh Ranjan rajesh672@gmail.com wrote:
But TWN as well as Zanata community can push the translation till the
date
we are not going for the evaluation of the mobile module for Hindi
language.
So assume, if both TWN and Zanata contributions are pushed in fuel.git,
then
we will have four versions of translations for fuel-mobile module in
Hindi
language. And it would be easier during the evaluation meet to decide
from
different choices and the working community can choose the best after discussion.
As FUEL upstream, I am sure that you know better. What I did found odd were:
- an announcement that did not explain about the "additional location"
concept
https://lists.fedorahosted.org/pipermail/fuel-discuss/2013-February/000420.h...https://lists.fedorahosted.org/pipermail/fuel-discuss/2013-February/000420.html
The link, I already posted a link ^^ apart from what Ankit posted, says clearly that we need multiple contributions:
-- fuel |-- as | `-- terminology | |-- desktop | | |-- cdac.po | | |-- individual_1.po | | `-- translatewiki.po | |-- mobile | | |-- cdac.po | | |-- individual_1.po | | `-- translatewiki.po | `-- web | |-- cdac.po | |-- individual_1.po | `-- translatewiki.po
The link below says something similar:
https://fedorahosted.org/fuel/wiki/NewsLetters/CY2013Q1#CollaborationwithTra...
- a plan that was not clearly articulated on the list for the upstream
project
It may be...but we tried to make it clear and it was duly discussed in Language Summit, Pune as well
- a method that has an eerie resemblance with Mozilla and its multiple
entry points to translation for the same locale/language
Here, the comparison of Mozilla situation with FUEL Project is fully invalid and odd:
FUEL Project is a linguistic resource project working for Terminology, Style Guide, Rendering System, Quality Assessment etc. For terminology we need multiple suggestions from different working communities, not a single translated file. The different suggestions will be helpful while we do organize evaluation meet/workshop of different communities to choose the best one. Here we need more contribution for a single file from different users/communities and so when we got chance, we collaborated with TWN and so with Zanata.
The "Mozilla method" had the seeds of forming splinter communities of contributors instead of the tools providing an unified platform. That was the scary downside.
Again I want to emphasize that the comparison can be done on similar things. Mozilla and FUEL both have entirely different needs.
FUEL don't want to build consensus on one single file. During FUEL Marathi Mobile Evaluation Meetup, we realised the importance of multiple suggestions. The presence of multiple suggestions helped much in choosing good terms in native language. So this need can not be fulfilled by a single file submitted by a single community.
ps. Every project has its pros/cons and may be Mozilla have some -ve aspect, but I respect Mozilla being it a open source project and we should engage ourselves to make it better.
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 8:03 AM, Isaac Rooskov irooskov@redhat.com wrote:
Hi all,
I'm proud to announce that the FUEL project is now available for translation through Zanata!
You can find the Desktop, Mobile and Web versions here:
https://translate.zanata.org/**zanata/project/view/fuel-**projecthttps://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/fuel-project
Let me know if you have any questions or issues.
Thanks,
Isaac
Thanks a lot Issac and whole Zanata Team!
Fedora Translation Community: or more details on FUEL Project please visit: http://www.fuelproject.org/
2013/8/26 Isaac Rooskov irooskov@redhat.com:
I'm proud to announce that the FUEL project is now available for translation through Zanata!
You can find the Desktop, Mobile and Web versions here:
https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/fuel-project
Let me know if you have any questions or issues.
Hi,
I appreciate your efforts, but I'm really confused right now. The only translation platform endorsed by the Fedora Localization Project is Transifex. I thought we made it clear that the Installation Guide is on Zanata only because of some technical limitations in Transifex, and all the other Fedora projects should be translated through fedora.transifex.com. Is FUEL an independent upstream project, or is it a part of Fedora? Or, should it be translated by Fedora translators who want Fedora to be localized, or is it just a non-mandatory tool to use by a few teams? Some explanation would greatly help here.
Best regards,
Hi Piotr,
Sorry for the confusion.
FUEL is an open-source project that is all about translation consistency in the field of Software Translation (http://www.fuelproject.org/home/index). It's not a piece of software or component of Fedora, it's a group of individuals who seek to begin providing translation consistency in our field.
I posted out to the Fedora trans list with the information that the FUEL project is now available in Zanata because some translators in Fedora are also working with the FUEL project (and hey, more people might want to be ;) ).
Again, sorry for any confusion and I do hope that I've helped clear things up a bit.
If not then please let me know.
Thanks,
Isaac
On 08/27/2013 12:07 AM, Piotr Drąg wrote:
2013/8/26 Isaac Rooskov irooskov@redhat.com:
I'm proud to announce that the FUEL project is now available for translation through Zanata!
You can find the Desktop, Mobile and Web versions here:
https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/fuel-project
Let me know if you have any questions or issues.
Hi,
I appreciate your efforts, but I'm really confused right now. The only translation platform endorsed by the Fedora Localization Project is Transifex. I thought we made it clear that the Installation Guide is on Zanata only because of some technical limitations in Transifex, and all the other Fedora projects should be translated through fedora.transifex.com. Is FUEL an independent upstream project, or is it a part of Fedora? Or, should it be translated by Fedora translators who want Fedora to be localized, or is it just a non-mandatory tool to use by a few teams? Some explanation would greatly help here.
Best regards,
On 08/26/2013 07:37 PM, Piotr Drąg wrote:
Hi,
I appreciate your efforts, but I'm really confused right now. The only translation platform endorsed by the Fedora Localization Project is Transifex. I thought we made it clear that the Installation Guide is on Zanata only because of some technical limitations in Transifex, and all the other Fedora projects should be translated through fedora.transifex.com.
Hi Piotr,
Apologies if I forgot, but I do not recall a decision to have every Fedora project to be translated through transifex!
I thought it's a developer's choice where to host translations.
Btw, there are projects (from Fedora I think) hosted on Zanata. https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/kexec-tools https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/ibus-libpinyin https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/katello-cli https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/katello https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/subscription-manager https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/candlepin https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/im-chooser https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/imsettings https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/system-config-language https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/iok https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/gfs2-utils
Thanks,
2013/8/27 Ankit Patel ankit@redhat.com:
Apologies if I forgot, but I do not recall a decision to have every Fedora project to be translated through transifex!
I thought it's a developer's choice where to host translations.
Btw, there are projects (from Fedora I think) hosted on Zanata.
I don't have the time to go through old mailing list posts, but I remember that we explicitly chose Transifex as a solution for Fedora translation. One of the first sentences in our l10n guide is "Fedora uses Transifex to manage its localization workflow" even. :) Naturally, developers may choose to host their translations elsewhere, but they shouldn't expect members of the Fedora Localization Project to always know where they are, and translate them. Especially since I don't recall any announcements of projects changing hosting on this list. If there were, I apologise.
Best regards,
On 08/29/2013 12:17 AM, Piotr Drąg wrote:
2013/8/27 Ankit Patel ankit@redhat.com:
Apologies if I forgot, but I do not recall a decision to have every Fedora project to be translated through transifex!
I thought it's a developer's choice where to host translations.
Btw, there are projects (from Fedora I think) hosted on Zanata.
I don't have the time to go through old mailing list posts, but I remember that we explicitly chose Transifex as a solution for Fedora translation. One of the first sentences in our l10n guide is "Fedora uses Transifex to manage its localization workflow" even. :) Naturally, developers may choose to host their translations elsewhere, but they shouldn't expect members of the Fedora Localization Project to always know where they are, and translate them. Especially since I don't recall any announcements of projects changing hosting on this list. If there were, I apologise.
Best regards,
Hi Piotr,
I just found an announcement about system-config-language transition[1].
[1] https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/trans/2012-March/009791.html
Le mardi 27 août 2013 à 12:54:07 (+0530), Ankit Patel a écrit :
On 08/26/2013 07:37 PM, Piotr Drąg wrote:
Hi,
I appreciate your efforts, but I'm really confused right now. The only translation platform endorsed by the Fedora Localization Project is Transifex. I thought we made it clear that the Installation Guide is on Zanata only because of some technical limitations in Transifex, and all the other Fedora projects should be translated through fedora.transifex.com.
Hi Piotr,
Apologies if I forgot, but I do not recall a decision to have every Fedora project to be translated through transifex!
First of all, we had all under transifex.fedoraproject.org. At some point we decided to migrate. Migration does not mean explosion. Few people helped to create and move projects to fedora.transifex.net. That was an amazing job! The issue is that many developers haven't taken the time to check how Transifex (0.7 by that time) was working, they haven't managed to update their repo in order to pull (or push) translations. We lost many projects here. We have lost quality. Because some dev chose to migrate somewhere else. That's their choice. But they should have tell us (their lovely translators) what they did. And (mostly all), never did. It's insane on the FOSS world, where you ask free translators to develop your project. You can't just decide to move somewhere else, where they won't have a chance to follow your work, and their own work. As translator, sometimes we spend several weeks on translations. Would you like an unknown translator changing your wording that you did mostly perfect? It has happened before. It will happen again :(
I thought it's a developer's choice where to host translations.
Hell yes, he has the power. Devel is the god here. But do dev knows more about translation than translators? IMHO a dev should not mind about how to translate, just about quality. Of course he has to choose a [good] platform.. Here at the Fedora Project we decided to go for transifex.net (transifex.com now). But I am not sure that we are giving guidelines when creating a new project at fedorahosted.
Btw, there are projects (from Fedora I think) hosted on Zanata.
And please, how should we know about them? Fedora translators look at fedora.transifex.com in order to know what they have to translate. Even there, we can't find them all, Fedora maintainers need to update the Fedora Hub releases on their own..
Even if I know that some projects are at Zanata.. I keep focusing at Transifex because: - I have a good team there - I know very well the tools (online, offline) - I know the pros and cons and deal with them - I can find easily our priority projects - I am not bored of life, I have so much help to provide, that I don't want to spend time to look for new projects...
Then, to conclude if you want Fedora Translators helping through Zanata also, you might want to create a Fedora group or something similar, to filter all Fedora related software.
https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/kexec-tools https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/ibus-libpinyin https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/katello-cli https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/katello https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/subscription-manager https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/candlepin https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/im-chooser https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/imsettings https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/system-config-language https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/iok
There is the Transifex project. There is the Zanata project. But neither of them should be used: "Currently, I don't plan to create project on zanata or transifex. Even if you find it there please don't try to submit your translations there." https://fedorahosted.org/iok/
Several of the above software are used during L10n test day. It's bad that we don't have the way to access all translations easily (meaning of platform and credentials − I know, Zanata is using FAS OpenID, really appreciated)
Hi Kévin,
I've read your email a few times looking for feedback that we can implement into Zanata. My takeaway is that there should be a way to create an overall "main product" or "main project" page. So for instance, you could have a Fedora 20 page, that would then provide direct links to all the translation projects that apply to this "main product".
Does that sound like it would be helpful? I believe Ankit raised this idea with us off-list as well.
If this isn't exactly what would assist, or I've only touched the surface I'd be keen to hear more on how we can help the community with this.
Thanks,
Isaac
On 08/29/2013 06:48 PM, Kévin Raymond wrote:
Le mardi 27 août 2013 à 12:54:07 (+0530), Ankit Patel a écrit :
On 08/26/2013 07:37 PM, Piotr Drąg wrote:
Hi,
I appreciate your efforts, but I'm really confused right now. The only translation platform endorsed by the Fedora Localization Project is Transifex. I thought we made it clear that the Installation Guide is on Zanata only because of some technical limitations in Transifex, and all the other Fedora projects should be translated through fedora.transifex.com.
Hi Piotr,
Apologies if I forgot, but I do not recall a decision to have every Fedora project to be translated through transifex!
First of all, we had all under transifex.fedoraproject.org. At some point we decided to migrate. Migration does not mean explosion. Few people helped to create and move projects to fedora.transifex.net. That was an amazing job! The issue is that many developers haven't taken the time to check how Transifex (0.7 by that time) was working, they haven't managed to update their repo in order to pull (or push) translations. We lost many projects here. We have lost quality. Because some dev chose to migrate somewhere else. That's their choice. But they should have tell us (their lovely translators) what they did. And (mostly all), never did. It's insane on the FOSS world, where you ask free translators to develop your project. You can't just decide to move somewhere else, where they won't have a chance to follow your work, and their own work. As translator, sometimes we spend several weeks on translations. Would you like an unknown translator changing your wording that you did mostly perfect? It has happened before. It will happen again :(
I thought it's a developer's choice where to host translations.
Hell yes, he has the power. Devel is the god here. But do dev knows more about translation than translators? IMHO a dev should not mind about how to translate, just about quality. Of course he has to choose a [good] platform.. Here at the Fedora Project we decided to go for transifex.net (transifex.com now). But I am not sure that we are giving guidelines when creating a new project at fedorahosted.
Btw, there are projects (from Fedora I think) hosted on Zanata.
And please, how should we know about them? Fedora translators look at fedora.transifex.com in order to know what they have to translate. Even there, we can't find them all, Fedora maintainers need to update the Fedora Hub releases on their own..
Even if I know that some projects are at Zanata.. I keep focusing at Transifex because:
- I have a good team there
- I know very well the tools (online, offline)
- I know the pros and cons and deal with them
- I can find easily our priority projects
- I am not bored of life, I have so much help to provide, that I don't want to spend time to look for new projects...
Then, to conclude if you want Fedora Translators helping through Zanata also, you might want to create a Fedora group or something similar, to filter all Fedora related software.
https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/kexec-tools https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/ibus-libpinyin https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/katello-cli https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/katello https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/subscription-manager https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/candlepin https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/im-chooser https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/imsettings https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/system-config-language https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/iok
There is the Transifex project. There is the Zanata project. But neither of them should be used: "Currently, I don't plan to create project on zanata or transifex. Even if you find it there please don't try to submit your translations there." https://fedorahosted.org/iok/
Several of the above software are used during L10n test day. It's bad that we don't have the way to access all translations easily (meaning of platform and credentials − I know, Zanata is using FAS OpenID, really appreciated)
-- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 12:54 AM, Isaac Rooskov irooskov@redhat.com wrote:
If this isn't exactly what would assist, or I've only touched the surface I'd be keen to hear more on how we can help the community with this.
I think the main concern Kevin is trying to raise is that having just one authoritative place to look for things to translate in your language is a huge convenience for translators. As a member of the Italian team I can just confirm this is the really the case.
I can got to transifex.com and have a grasp about how the Fedora translation cycle is going, where the most action is right now, not to mention the great features they have been adding overtime (especially wrt the online translation and review tool).
Now, I think I opened an account in zanata when the installation guide was moved over there and probably logged in twice so I am not qualified to judge the platform, let alone its current status or feature set. However, given the lack of resources in our team I would greatly appreciate if we could avoid checking, learning and working with two completely different services to achieve the same goal.
So, if Zanata turns out to be be better for our purposes I am all for moving *all* Fedora stuff from TX; but please try to avoid having stuff both in TX *and* in zanata.
cheers
Gianluca
PS. if you are trying to gather what are the needs of the translators in the Fedora community I think you can definitely have a look at what TX is doing. Much of their UX and workflow is well thought and executed, and they integrated many feature requested by our translators.
Thanks for the input Gianluca :)
Isaac
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gianluca Sforna" giallu@gmail.com To: "Fedora Translation Project List" trans@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Friday, August 30, 2013 8:59:18 PM Subject: Re: FUEL translation now available on Zanata!
On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 12:54 AM, Isaac Rooskov irooskov@redhat.com wrote:
If this isn't exactly what would assist, or I've only touched the surface I'd be keen to hear more on how we can help the community with this.
I think the main concern Kevin is trying to raise is that having just one authoritative place to look for things to translate in your language is a huge convenience for translators. As a member of the Italian team I can just confirm this is the really the case.
I can got to transifex.com and have a grasp about how the Fedora translation cycle is going, where the most action is right now, not to mention the great features they have been adding overtime (especially wrt the online translation and review tool).
Now, I think I opened an account in zanata when the installation guide was moved over there and probably logged in twice so I am not qualified to judge the platform, let alone its current status or feature set. However, given the lack of resources in our team I would greatly appreciate if we could avoid checking, learning and working with two completely different services to achieve the same goal.
So, if Zanata turns out to be be better for our purposes I am all for moving *all* Fedora stuff from TX; but please try to avoid having stuff both in TX *and* in zanata.
cheers
Gianluca
PS. if you are trying to gather what are the needs of the translators in the Fedora community I think you can definitely have a look at what TX is doing. Much of their UX and workflow is well thought and executed, and they integrated many feature requested by our translators.
On 08/26/2013 08:03 AM, Isaac Rooskov wrote:
Hi all,
I'm proud to announce that the FUEL project is now available for translation through Zanata!
You can find the Desktop, Mobile and Web versions here:
https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/project/view/fuel-project
Let me know if you have any questions or issues.
Thanks,
Isaac
There are two aspects for Fedora Localization language communities:
1. Contribute * FUEL terminologies are now made available for translations through Zanata. You can start translating. * FUEL terminologies are also available for translations through translatewiki, so if you have the same language community there as well, community can choose to select one and start translating.
2. Consume Some of the languages for FUEL terminologies are already evaluated. Enabling these terminologies would provide you glossary suggestions while translating Fedora modules online.
The languages evaluated at this moment are: * For FUEL Desktop terminology Assamese Bengali (India) Gujarati Hindi Kannada Maithili Malayalam Marathi (and FUEL Mobile terminology as well) Odia Punjabi Tamil Telugu
I have added above terminologies on Zanata as it would be resourceful while translating, however if any of the above Fedora language communities do not want to enable FUEL terminologies for doing Fedora translations on Zanata, I can disable it. Please do let me know if you need so.
Thanks,
On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 4:28 PM, Ankit Patel ankit@redhat.com wrote:
I have added above terminologies on Zanata as it would be resourceful while translating, however if any of the above Fedora language communities do not want to enable FUEL terminologies for doing Fedora translations on Zanata, I can disable it. Please do let me know if you need so.
Was there a notice to the language communities that the terminology would be turned on?
On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 5:22 PM, sankarshan foss.mailinglists@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 4:28 PM, Ankit Patel ankit@redhat.com wrote:
I have added above terminologies on Zanata as it would be resourceful while translating, however if any of the above Fedora language communities do not want to enable FUEL terminologies for doing Fedora translations on Zanata, I can disable it. Please do let me know if you need so.
Was there a notice to the language communities that the terminology would be turned on?
I didn't see an answer to this - was there an announcement on Zanata/(Fedora)Trans list about this intention and, why default opt-in was not considered?
On 09/02/2013 04:26 PM, sankarshan wrote:
On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 5:22 PM, sankarshan foss.mailinglists@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 4:28 PM, Ankit Patel ankit@redhat.com wrote:
I have added above terminologies on Zanata as it would be resourceful while translating, however if any of the above Fedora language communities do not want to enable FUEL terminologies for doing Fedora translations on Zanata, I can disable it. Please do let me know if you need so.
Was there a notice to the language communities that the terminology would be turned on?
I didn't see an answer to this - was there an announcement on Zanata/(Fedora)Trans list about this intention and, why default opt-in was not considered?
I thought I replied you!
The language communities at Fedora are (and should be) already subscribed to trans@lists.fedoraproject.org as part of the fedora localization guidilines[1], so the respective language communities should have noticed these email conversations. The FUEL glossaries enabled are references or suggestions from the FUEL Glossaries, which are not being applied automatically to any translations.
Again, if any of the language communities would want to disable it, I can do that quickly.
Thanks, Ankit
[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Guide#Subscribe_to_the_Mailing_List
On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 4:47 PM, Ankit Patel ankit@redhat.com wrote:
I thought I replied you!
If you did, it must have been off-list.
The language communities at Fedora are (and should be) already subscribed to trans@lists.fedoraproject.org as part of the fedora localization guidilines[1], so the respective language communities should have noticed these email conversations. The FUEL glossaries enabled are references or suggestions from the FUEL Glossaries, which are not being applied automatically to any translations.
Again, if any of the language communities would want to disable it, I can do that quickly.
So, here's what I see as an issue.
If this is a Zanata product feature, it would behove the team (or, a representative of it) to actually provide opt-in rather than opt-out. Because, by doing the latter you are thinking on behalf of the language communities. And, you'd be able to do that if you switched this on using your FLSCo role.
Now, traditionally, FLSCo, the Fedora Board and, the FPL have not been tremendously active when it comes to language related issues (contrast the involvement with FESCo). So, if you did elect to have default opt-in as a FLSCo representative, there was perhaps a requirement of a FLSCo meeting.
If your decision was as a FUEL upstream, then it is a bit autocratic to switch it on without asking anyone.
If your decision was in some other capacity, this would require a notice of a switch-on/inclusion, a drop-dead-by date and, thereafter this action.
FUEL may be an excellent collection of a list of frequently used terms. But switching it on by hammering through a default opt-in, without specifically mentioning it coming or, announcing it on Zanata or, Trans list is a bit atypical. The fact that you can disable this feature raises another interesting point - what is the level of your access to the Zanata infrastructure? Is there a list maintained somewhere which provides detail on who have access to the Zanata internals and, are approved to tweak bits? Infrastructure Operations are generally a well documented process and, a small subset of individuals have varying levels of access - are you a Zanata admin?
Frankly, I've long given up hope for FLSCo to be an useful entity, saddled as it is by "interest". So, yes, this is a governance failure and, it does set a dangerous precedent of "knowing better than the language communities"
On 09/02/2013 04:55 PM, sankarshan wrote:
On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 4:47 PM, Ankit Patel ankit@redhat.com wrote:
I thought I replied you!
If you did, it must have been off-list.
The language communities at Fedora are (and should be) already subscribed to trans@lists.fedoraproject.org as part of the fedora localization guidilines[1], so the respective language communities should have noticed these email conversations. The FUEL glossaries enabled are references or suggestions from the FUEL Glossaries, which are not being applied automatically to any translations.
Again, if any of the language communities would want to disable it, I can do that quickly.
So, here's what I see as an issue.
If this is a Zanata product feature, it would behove the team (or, a representative of it) to actually provide opt-in rather than opt-out. Because, by doing the latter you are thinking on behalf of the language communities. And, you'd be able to do that if you switched this on using your FLSCo role.
Now, traditionally, FLSCo, the Fedora Board and, the FPL have not been tremendously active when it comes to language related issues (contrast the involvement with FESCo). So, if you did elect to have default opt-in as a FLSCo representative, there was perhaps a requirement of a FLSCo meeting.
If your decision was as a FUEL upstream, then it is a bit autocratic to switch it on without asking anyone.
If your decision was in some other capacity, this would require a notice of a switch-on/inclusion, a drop-dead-by date and, thereafter this action.
FUEL may be an excellent collection of a list of frequently used terms. But switching it on by hammering through a default opt-in, without specifically mentioning it coming or, announcing it on Zanata or, Trans list is a bit atypical. The fact that you can disable this feature raises another interesting point - what is the level of your access to the Zanata infrastructure? Is there a list maintained somewhere which provides detail on who have access to the Zanata internals and, are approved to tweak bits? Infrastructure Operations are generally a well documented process and, a small subset of individuals have varying levels of access - are you a Zanata admin?
Frankly, I've long given up hope for FLSCo to be an useful entity, saddled as it is by "interest". So, yes, this is a governance failure and, it does set a dangerous precedent of "knowing better than the language communities"
Reading all the points you have raised I can see that your focus is towards the standardization of the process and roles related to Fedora Localization, Zanata, FUEL Project and many more.
Yes, I am a member of Fedora Localization Project, FUEL and Zanata. Of course, I have admin rights for all those places because of my active past, present and future commitments to the respective projects.
FUEL Project has received evaluated desktop terminologies with the help of community itself, therefore the need of asking community again would make no sense to me. However, I have been constantly asking opt-out for any language team here.
e.g. Bengali (India) community (also a member of Fedora and many other open source localization projects) sends a FUEL terminology[1], does it make sense to ask the same group of people again whether they want to use it or not which is actually being created by them?
Thanks,
[1] https://lists.fedorahosted.org/pipermail/fuel-discuss/2012-June/000298.html
On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 7:25 AM, sankarshan foss.mailinglists@gmail.comwrote:
Now, traditionally, FLSCo, the Fedora Board and, the FPL have not been tremendously active when it comes to language related issues (contrast the involvement with FESCo). So, if you did elect to have default opt-in as a FLSCo representative, there was perhaps a requirement of a FLSCo meeting.
To be perfectly honest, for the entire time I was the FPL, I had no idea that the FLSCo was still operating as a steering committee. I saw lots of conversations on this list and tried my best to help interact with the people working on translations, but didn't ever see any evidence of FLSCo operating as a steering committee -- no meetings or recorded minutes, no elections, no messages to the Fedora Board, nothing. The Fedora wiki shows the last recorded meeting in 2009, and the last elections in 2008. Am I missing something here?
Had I known there was a working FLSCo at the time, I certainly would have reached out and been more actively involved.
-- Jared Smith
There is no FLSCo. We never really had the manpower to properly operate a SCo. The last 'proper' committee meeting was mid-2008, more than 5 years ago.
Practically and historically, some of the active people act as spokespeople for different groups: Piotr and recently Kevin Raymond for the Fedora community, Noriko for Red Hat translators and myself and Diego for tools. Which is fine -- it's actually how free software usually works.
Jared, your help was very useful, thank you for stepping in.
-d
On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 6:24 PM, Jared K. Smith jsmith@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 7:25 AM, sankarshan foss.mailinglists@gmail.com wrote:
Now, traditionally, FLSCo, the Fedora Board and, the FPL have not been tremendously active when it comes to language related issues (contrast the involvement with FESCo). So, if you did elect to have default opt-in as a FLSCo representative, there was perhaps a requirement of a FLSCo meeting.
To be perfectly honest, for the entire time I was the FPL, I had no idea that the FLSCo was still operating as a steering committee. I saw lots of conversations on this list and tried my best to help interact with the people working on translations, but didn't ever see any evidence of FLSCo operating as a steering committee -- no meetings or recorded minutes, no elections, no messages to the Fedora Board, nothing. The Fedora wiki shows the last recorded meeting in 2009, and the last elections in 2008. Am I missing something here?
Had I known there was a working FLSCo at the time, I certainly would have reached out and been more actively involved.
-- Jared Smith
-- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
-
Ankit Patel -
Dimitris Glezos -
Gianluca Sforna -
Isaac Rooskov -
Jared K. Smith -
Kévin Raymond -
Piotr Drąg -
Rajesh Ranjan -
sankarshan